Spumantiii
pistolero
+147|6911|Canada
It's being said that the Caananites were in fact the Phoenicians, the same people but with different names according to texts.  Phoenician is just a name the historians appropriately named (exactly why not sure)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia
"To many archaeologists therefore, the Phoenicians are simply indistinguishable from the descendants of coastal-dwelling Canaanites, who over the centuries developed a particular seagoing culture and skills. But others believe equally firmly, like Herodotus, that the Phoenician culture must have been inspired from an external source. All manner of suggestions have been made: that the Phoenicians were sea-traders from the Land of Punt who co-opted the Canaanite population; or that they were connected with the Minoans; or the Sea Peoples or the Philistines further south; or on the other side of the fence, that they represent the activities of supposed coastal maritime Israelite tribes like Dan."

Some say these are the ancient Jews, others say they are the ancient Palestinians

Last edited by Spumantiii (2006-07-16 15:55:37)

topthrill05
Member
+125|6807|Rochester NY USA
Somehow Bush will be to blame.
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7066

Spumantiii wrote:

Horseman 77 wrote:

We dont even know for sure were and when or if the ancient jews lived.  Its not a viable argument in the 21st century.
umm yes we do it's just as much history as the ancient Greeks or Phoenicians or Egyptians.  There is plenty of history if you care to look for it, don't just say "there is none"
Ok...
just dont ask people to leave homes that have been in their family for 500 generations

because The invisable man in Your book told them it was cool.
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7066

topthrill05 wrote:

Somehow Bush will be to blame.
no it was Reagan !
Spumantiii
pistolero
+147|6911|Canada

Horseman 77 wrote:

Spumantiii wrote:

Horseman 77 wrote:

We dont even know for sure were and when or if the ancient jews lived.  Its not a viable argument in the 21st century.
umm yes we do it's just as much history as the ancient Greeks or Phoenicians or Egyptians.  There is plenty of history if you care to look for it, don't just say "there is none"
Ok...
just dont ask people to leave homes that have been in their family for 500 generations

because The invisable man in Your book told them it was cool.
when did I ask that, and more importantly, what book, /invisible man?
I'm not asking people to leave their homes.  I never said Palestine has no right to exist.  Both Israel and Palestine have a 'right to exist'

Last edited by Spumantiii (2006-07-16 21:08:58)

topthrill05
Member
+125|6807|Rochester NY USA

PBAsydney wrote:

Isrealis are just as much terrorists as all those around them.
We are all "Terrorists". All depends on the point of view.
Spumantiii
pistolero
+147|6911|Canada
500 generations is more or less 15 thousand years.  That's quite a bit longer than evidence of writing has been found to exist.

(I like to believe there was but it hasn't been found)

Last edited by Spumantiii (2006-07-16 21:29:45)

dubbs
Member
+105|6861|Lexington, KY

Sea_JayUK wrote:

You HAVE to be kidding, Israel is one of the only countries which lays a claim to an historic land. Most (if not all) civilisations have been moved from one coutry to another, changed and adapted and evolved into new cultures... Why should israel 'go back' to A land it lost an awful long time ago.
You HAVE to be kidding.  There are other nations that want to go back to the Middle East.  That is one of the reason that Israel keeps getting attacked by terroist.  Here are two sources for you to look at instead of assuming that Israel is the only one that wants their homeland back.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0776421.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_State


Sea_JayUK wrote:

-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:

Why are you arabs so brain washed. You know for a fact that hezbollah kidnapped and also killed Israeli soldiers. Thats an act of war and you act suprised when Israeli respons in an appropriate manner.  If someone kidnapped even one American soldier I would feel no regrets about bombing their country until he or she was released. You have to protect your own. Lebanon is letting Iran and Syria ruin their country not Israel.
Hezbollah is not a country, I believe it is you who has been 'brainwashed' to believe that this is so.
Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese goverment.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/ … index.html

CNN wrote:

It (Hezbollah) has become a social/political movement, holding 14 seats in the 128-member Lebanese parliament, according to the parliament's Web site.
As I stated in another post on this subject, if the Green Party was to go into Canada, kidnap and kill some of their Monties.  Canada would hold the US responsible because the US government did not keep the Green Party under control.  Why is it that when it comes to the Middle East there is a double standard?  For that matter, why is there a double standard for Muslims compared to the Jews.  Israel is attacked daily by Hamas, or Hezbollah, most of the time by both of them.  When ever Israel defends themselves, they get look down upon.  Also, do not bring history into this issue.  Abram, the father of both the Palastines and Jews, claimed most of the Middle East as his own.  Therefore both groups of people have claims to the land. 


@ the person who stated that Jersulam is the 3rd holiest city for Islam, and the 1st for Judism.  Not a lot of people know that the Muslims will not let Jews go near the Dome of the Rock, but the Jews allow Muslims near the Wailing Wall.  Also, Islam since it was created has tried to belittle and get rid of the Jews.  That is one of the reason why the Dome of the Rock is located where it is.  Before Islam claimed that as a Holy Place, Jews stated that this was not only the place of the orginal alter for the First Temple, but also the place where Abram was going to offer his son to God.  This would have made the spot a Holy Place for Judism before Islam, and taking the Bible as a historical text, not a literal historical text but one based on history, we know that Judism first claimed this as a holy site.  We can ever go outside of the Bible, because we know that the Jews has not one but three temples where the Dome of the Rock is before Muhammad was born.  If anything, Islam does not have the right to the Temple Mount/Noble Sanctuary or the Dome of the Rock.  Also, the site is not as Holy to Islam, the Rock that is located within the Dome of the Rock is the Holy relic.

Another little known fact is that according to the way the Temple was set up for the Jews, they can allow Gentiles (non-Jews) to worship at the Temple Mount/Noble Sanctuary.  This would allow Islam to keep the Dome of the Rock, but Islam will not allow it. 

According to Wikipedia according to the story in the Qur`an:

Though the location is not historically certain, a Qur'anic verse says that Muhammad took a night journey on a winged horse from a sacred mosque (probably Mecca) to the farthest mosque (al-Masjid al-Aqsa), which later came to be associated with Jerusalem

Wiki then goes on to say:

Since Jerusalem is not mentioned in the Qur'an, many neutral historians point to the concept that the caliph decided on the location of the mosque - which started out as a tiny wooden shrine - to show what he perceived to be Islam's superiority over Judaism. Building a shrine on top of Judaism's holiest site - the Temple Mount - would seem to point to the caliph's belief in this idea, although many, if not most Muslims, disagree on the grounds of their religious traditions in the ensuing centuries.

(This backs up my earlier statement stating that Islam has always tried to belittle Judism.)  Another Wiki article states that the location of Temple Mount was not considered a Mosque until 715, and that the term used in the Qur`an was poetic, not literal.
horny_trojan
Member
+39|6940|Los FUCKING Angeles

Sea_JayUK wrote:

I thought Id show my sister what propoganda is today, turned on CNN during the adverts. 'Of course we all agree here at the summit that whiel whats happening in the Middle East at the moment is a terrible tradgedy, Israel has every right to defend itself from attack'.

Hmmmm... Israels not being attacked by an airport, Israels not being attacked through the trade routes (which have been blocked) In fact Israel is provoking a masive conflict with the Arab world because ISRAELS FUNDEMENTALIST RELIGIOUS BELIEFS say that they have a RIGHT to that area of the world. Forget the people who have been there for thousands of years. Israel is the invader, both now and as soon as they set foot in Israel.
And what? Hezbollah and Hamas aren't fundamentalist extremests?  They dedicate themselve to the destruction of Isreal (a position that your post seems to endorse).  When terrorist strike from the protection of another country *cough, lebanon* and that government does nothing to stop them, they align themselves with the scumbags.
-=NHB=- Bananahands
Member
+58|6787

Sea_JayUK wrote:

Spumantiii wrote:

Please.  Jews lived in Israel thousands of years ago in one of the world's first cities, Jericho.  Islam came about well after Jesus' death.  Get your chronology right man.  Israel does have a right to exist there.  I am not condoning the last 60 years, but Jews have a right to that land just as much as Palestinians. 

PS Jerusalem is the Jewish holy city.

Mecca and Medina are the Islamic holy cities. 

Who has a right to Jerusalem?
You HAVE to be kidding, Israel is one of the only countries which lays a claim to an historic land. Most (if not all) civilisations have been moved from one coutry to another, changed and adapted and evolved into new cultures... Why should israel 'go back' to A land it lost an awful long time ago. thats like the Italians claiming an historic right to Europe or claims by the ancestural homes of the Saxons to England... Who has a right to the land Israel is on? Certainly not a bunch of people who havent lived there for 40+ generations. Our problem now is that Israel IS there, but dont expect the Arab nations to not be a little annoyed that there land has been taken without consent and That the whole world stands by while israels army attacks Arab Airfields and Ports.

As for a state not trying to eradicate terrorism? Not a just cause for attacking a country as a whole, otherwise England and Ireland would be fighting right now.

-=NHB=- Bananahands wrote:

Why are you arabs so brain washed. You know for a fact that hezbollah kidnapped and also killed Israeli soldiers. Thats an act of war and you act suprised when Israeli respons in an appropriate manner.  If someone kidnapped even one American soldier I would feel no regrets about bombing their country until he or she was released. You have to protect your own. Lebanon is letting Iran and Syria ruin their country not Israel.
Hezbollah is not a country, I believe it is you who has been 'brainwashed' to believe that this is so.
Did I say it was a country moron? Hezbollah is running southern Lebanon and its Lebanons duty to keep control of its own territory. If they let hezbollah run amuck and allow them to fire missles into Israel then they are just as guilty as hezbollah itself.

Last edited by -=NHB=- Bananahands (2006-07-16 22:02:54)

GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6873
hezbollah is more than a bunch of country bumpkins playing with rpg's and persian missles.  they actually do have voice in the lebanese govt and have 2 officials in the lebanese ministries.  Hezbollah means "Party of God".
PRiMACORD
Member
+190|6854|Home of the Escalade Herds
These last posts seem to be missing the point.

They just fucking killed 8 canadian citizens, 9 if you include the poor guy who lost his wife and 4 KIDS.

In a perfect world canada would bomb israel to shit.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6758|Global Command
Why would they bomb Israel, because Canadians are in a war zone?
Thats insane. Based on that, China should've nuked the U.S> when we accidently took out a embassy of theirs in Yugoslavia.

Last edited by Alexanderthegrape (2006-07-16 22:58:24)

GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6873
Invade singapore for that nasty cane
PRiMACORD
Member
+190|6854|Home of the Escalade Herds

Alexanderthegrape wrote:

Why would they bomb Israel, because Canadians are in a war zone?
Because they fucking suck?

War zone? They got no fucking warning.
Spumantiii
pistolero
+147|6911|Canada
no.   This incident is deplorable as it is.  I feel remorse for those families especially because I believe Israel has handled this all wrong.  In a perfect world
it would never happen
but now that it has let it be an example.   I can safely assume that this kind of action is nothing Canada would condone.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6873
question:

WHAT THE FUCK MAKES THEIR LIVES MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE HUNDRED PLUS OTHER PEOPLE THAT HAVE JUST DIED FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE CONFLICT!?!?!?!?!

answer:

nothing
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6758|Global Command

PRiMACORD wrote:

Alexanderthegrape wrote:

Why would they bomb Israel, because Canadians are in a war zone?
Because they fucking suck?

War zone? They got no fucking warning.
Go ahead, and get it off your chest. When 9-11 happened I bawled my eyes out and then went and prepared for the end of the world.

It's called  a c c i d e n t.
Spumantiii
pistolero
+147|6911|Canada

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

question:

WHAT THE FUCK MAKES THEIR LIVES MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE HUNDRED PLUS OTHER PEOPLE THAT HAVE JUST DIED FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE CONFLICT!?!?!?!?!

answer:

nothing
nothing, but it often takes something like this for people to relate
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6873
im not addressing this at you, but it seems to show just how racist the west could be when it comes to the value of human life.  Haji's heart beats just as loud as anyone elses, but all of sudden 8 canadians die and something must be done.  please.
dubbs
Member
+105|6861|Lexington, KY

PRiMACORD wrote:

Alexanderthegrape wrote:

Why would they bomb Israel, because Canadians are in a war zone?
Because they fucking suck?

War zone? They got no fucking warning.
According to CNN, Israel did drop leaflets (sp) telling that they were bombing the location.   CNN had this on their index page on July 16th, I can not find the link, or I would have posted it.

PS: Primacord, glad you posted here.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6758|Global Command
Thats right, and it's war and collateral damage happens in a war.
PRiMACORD
Member
+190|6854|Home of the Escalade Herds

Alexanderthegrape wrote:

PRiMACORD wrote:

Alexanderthegrape wrote:

Why would they bomb Israel, because Canadians are in a war zone?
Because they fucking suck?

War zone? They got no fucking warning.
Go ahead, and get it off your chest. When 9-11 happened I bawled my eyes out and then went and prepared for the end of the world.

It's called  a c c i d e n t.
9-11 was extremely horrid, yes. What does that have to do with this?

Accident? Such a nice clean word for loss of life eh?

Woops!

With all the technology Israel has wouldn't you expect this sort of thing to be less common?

And how priority was this 'target'? Was it some terrorist town? Did they even kill any hezbollah members or just civilians?

Right..
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6873

dubbs wrote:

PRiMACORD wrote:

Alexanderthegrape wrote:

Why would they bomb Israel, because Canadians are in a war zone?
Because they fucking suck?

War zone? They got no fucking warning.
According to CNN, Israel did drop leaflets (sp) telling that they were bombing the location.   CNN had this on their index page on July 16th, I can not find the link, or I would have posted it.

PS: Primacord, glad you posted here.
just like the "outrage" that was felt for the citizens of fallujah November, 2004.  They had 3 weeks to evacuate.  what would you do if someone told you that your house will be the target of several thousands of rounds of ammunition in 3 weeks.  would you act surprised when those 3 weeks are up and you end up losing a couple of legs if you decided to stay?
PRiMACORD
Member
+190|6854|Home of the Escalade Herds

dubbs wrote:

According to CNN, Israel did drop leaflets (sp) telling that they were bombing the location.   CNN had this on their index page on July 16th, I can not find the link, or I would have posted it.

PS: Primacord, glad you posted here.
I have not been able to find anything on that. Anyway CNN? Propaganada network supreme.

Thanks i guess. It's not only the canadians i worry about it's just that this hits very close to home. I'm not some stone cold logistician who's going to pass off the loss of life as only an accident that is 'normal'. Death is never normal and never should be.

Last edited by PRiMACORD (2006-07-16 23:27:02)

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