Poll

If conscription was brought in, would you........

Join the army as requested and follow orders throuout32%32% - 50
Join the army but try to avoid a frontline role9%9% - 14
Only join if your country was actually being invaded21%21% - 33
Make a political statement like Ali did and take jail7%7% - 12
Go on the run and try to make it to Brazil3%3% - 6
Get angry and at being forced and join the other side2%2% - 4
Commit suicide0%0% - 1
Pay someone to impersonate you and take your position1%1% - 2
I am/was in the Army so duh!8%8% - 13
I am too old/young/disabled etc to qualify so screw you12%12% - 19
Total: 154
comet241
Member
+164|6994|Normal, IL
lol, spoken like a true libertarian. while i too agree that the tax system needs to be updated, changed, modified.... something needs to be done, I have yet to see either enough support behind the change, nor have I seen a proposal for a system that I feel would do a better job, but things like tolls on roads instead of taxing for them is one, there is much more work to be done. Clearly we are not going to settle the issue of a 'social clause'. I feel that living in a certain territory means you HAVE to abide by those laws, signing a social contract without actually signing one..... you dont. Ok, we'll move on from there.

While on a recent trip, I was fortunate enough to hear a program on the radio all about radically changing the tax system of America. I forget the website, the name of the cause, but they had a big rally with several speakers of high note and they advocated something more towards a flat tax system, more than likely different than what you are talking about, but a change nonetheless. I have heard of the flat tax idea before, among other suggestions, and both the flat tax and tax-as-you-use systems would probably be better than our current one. To me, the flat tax is more appealing for several reasons.

first off is fairness. Yes, to be 100% fair you could tax a little for everything used, ensuring you are only taxed for what you use, but in a flat tax, every single person gets the same percentage taken out. And to balance that fairness, you would have minor tweaks in the system, such as no tax on unprepared food items, yet taxing restaurants still, as studies show poorer people tend to spend more on unprepared food items than richer people, therefore ensuring that the poor have adequate means to obtain the basic tools of survival, and you would tweak several other items as well to ensure that the poor, or i suppose anyone for that matter, had adequate means to obtain food, clothing, shelter, and education.... the basics.

But, that isn't exactly what Libertarians view. I understand that. I, personally, wouldn't want to have to pay every time I call the police, or the fire department, or go to the library because while I personally have never used the first two, thankfully, I understand that they provide a benefit to society, my fellow man, and my contribution to their cause is worthwhile in my opinion....

If you had some links to some websites maybe of the ideas of the tax system you are talking of, I would love to see them. As i've said before, im always open to new ideas and occasionally change mine, and I'm very interested in the tax system, as far as changing it, and any new information would be greatly appreciated.
whittsend
PV1 Joe Snuffy
+78|6987|MA, USA
Flat taxes and other tax innovations are not, as you say, a libertarian solution.  Nevertheless, I would welcome them as a step in the right direction (I'm not so foolish as to believe we could ever implement a wholly moral [i.e. libertarian ] system overnight).

Someone, I forget who, argued for a consumption tax in another thread.  I like that even more.  You don't get taxed for earning money, or saving money; you simply get taxed when you spend it.

Last edited by whittsend (2006-06-22 11:32:09)

comet241
Member
+164|6994|Normal, IL
yes, consumption tax, thats the name of it. i couldn't think of the term, it's been a long couple days....

that's the problem, implementing a solution. it would take years and years of continuous work to get there (or any major, major change in the tax system). I'll have to research that now that i have the correct term...
whittsend
PV1 Joe Snuffy
+78|6987|MA, USA
The key to making a consumption tax fair is to decouple it from an income tax.  If you have both (as we have here in Massachusetts), it's just government being greedy.
cheshiremoe
Evil Geniuses for a sparsely populated tomorrow
+50|6938

Gawwad wrote:

Conscription all the way!

How could a small country like Finland defend it's borders otherwise?
Make a deal with the Devil (USA).
messfeeder
Member
+31|6757|Gotham
There will never be another draft instated.  Here's a better question: Should females also be required to register when they turn 18?  A teenage girl actually sued the US government for not requiring her to register when her brother had to.

It is my understanding that in Germany they are required to serve a certain amount of years either in military or community service.  Please, someone correct me if I am wrong, or elaborate if you know more about that.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6790
There are a few countries that have mandatory service, particularly in Europe and Asia, i believe.  Not exactly the same as conscription, IMHO.
jkohlc
2142th Whore
+214|6755|Singapore
meh...Singapore has conscriptions...
jonsimon
Member
+224|6724
Only if there was an enemy military on our soil. Otherwise, goodbye states, hello belize!
S3v3N
lolwut?
+685|6747|Montucky
i've got 1 year left IRR.  i already did my time.
Colfax
PR Only
+70|6873|United States - Illinois
First off if your between the ages of 15 and 25 you should go to www.sss.gov and read about Selective Service process.

So here is some of it that applies to this thread:

SELECTIVE SERVICE LOTTERY:
The lottery would establish the priority of call based on the birth dates of registrants. The first men drafted would be those turning age 20 during the calendar year of the lottery. For example, if a draft were held in 1998, those men born in 1978 would be considered first. If a young man turns 21 in the year of the draft, he would be in the second priority, in turning 22 he would be in the third priority, and so forth until the year in which he turns 26 at which time he is over the age of liability. Younger men would not be called in that year until men in the 20-25 age group are called.

Here is how the lottery would work: One capsule is drawn from the drum containing birth dates January 1 through December 31. One capsule is then drawn from the drum containing the sequence numbers from 1 through 365 (366 if the draft will call men born during a leap year) and the date and number are paired to establish the sequence number for each birth date. This is done in full view of all observers, officials, and the media.

For example, if the date of August 4 is drawn first from the "date" drum, and the sequence number of 32 is drawn from the "number's" drum at the same time, then those men turning 20 on August 4 would be ordered for induction processing only after men whose birthdays drew sequence numbers 1 through 31. The drawings continue until all 365 (or 366) birthdays of the year are paired with a sequence number.

Conscientious Objectors

WHO QUALIFIES?
Beliefs which qualify a registrant for CO status may be religious in nature, but don't have to be. Beliefs may be moral or ethical; however, a man's reasons for not wanting to participate in a war must not be based on politics, expediency, or self-interest. In general, the man's lifestyle prior to making his claim must reflect his current claims.

SERVICE AS A CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTOR
Two types of service are available to conscientious objectors, and the type assigned is determined by the individual's specific beliefs. The person who is opposed to any form of military service will be assigned to Alternative Service - described below. The person whose beliefs allow him to serve in the military but in a noncombatant capacity will serve in the Armed Forces but will not be assigned training or duties that include using weapons.

ALTERNATIVE SERVICE
Conscientious Objectors opposed to serving in the military will be placed in the Selective Service Alternative Service Program. This program attempts to match COs with local employers. Many types of jobs are available, however the job must be deemed to make a meaningful contribution to the maintenance of the national health, safety, and interest. Examples of Alternative Service are jobs in:

conservation
caring for the very young or very old
education
health care

Length of service in the program will equal the amount of time a man would have served in the military, usually 24 months.

How its Changed since Vietnam:
http://www.sss.gov/viet.htm
_______________________

I would server and do my duty for my country

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/slyder04/49063578v1_150x150_F.jpghttps://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/slyder04/356074-1.gif

Last edited by Colfax (2006-07-19 14:44:54)

rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6789
Support our troops, buy American, and impeach Bush.
Sydney
2λчиэλ
+783|7072|Reykjavík, Iceland.
I'd apply for commander and then go camp the airfield.

Problem is, we only have 2 F-15s, and they don't even have weapons, wtf....

Last edited by PBAsydney (2006-07-19 14:54:11)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7001|PNW

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

Most of us, sit in the comfort of our houses "supporting our boys" but what we're really doing is saying, you go off to war and risk your life whilst I'll sit here watching your life and death job played out on TV like a drama.
That's kind of a rotten way to put it, considering that "our boys'" (in the general sense) are funded by taxmoney from civilians.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-07-19 17:36:02)

BVC
Member
+325|6924

PBAsydney wrote:

I'd apply for commander and then go camp the airfield.

Problem is, we only have 2 F-15s, and they don't even have weapons, wtf....
At least you've actually got jet fighters!
MorbidFetus
Member
+76|6780|Ohio
This is the reason I'm going to buy a good assault rifle next month when I'm out of the service. Not that it's likely the draft will ever happen in our lifetime but between my fascination of a zombie takeover and William Cooper I think I have more than enough reasons to become a gun-toting looney.

rawls2 wrote:

Support our troops, buy American, and impeach Bush.
Elaborate on this because I do not see how someone can be pissed at Bush for getting us in an "unjust" war but still support those actually engaging in the "unjust" war. That's sorta like being pissed at McDonalds for selling you a fatty ass hamburger but you still eat it anyway.

Unless that's not a major reason why you want Bush impeached...

Last edited by MorbidFetus (2006-07-20 20:22:30)

DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|6914|United States of America
You got to join up. Think of your HONOR, man! Either that, or just make sure you have no children to know you chickened out.
stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|6949|California

Id prefer to join the Marines, but if push came to shove, Army would work
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|7003|Noizyland

I don't like conscription as such, but I've always toyed with the prospect of joining the poorly equipped NZ Army, so I would go for option one.
I would fully defend other peoples right to go against conscription though.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Capt. Foley
Member
+155|6817|Allentown, PA, USA

Ikarti wrote:

I'd teamkill
You are a piece of shit that doesn't deserve to be wasting the air that you breath, but then death would be too good for you so...

Oh, and I would join and serve my country and do my best. I am a proud American and very Patriotic.

Last edited by Capt. Foley (2006-07-20 20:57:02)

Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6790
Patriotism starts wars.................
stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|6949|California

Bubbalo wrote:

Patriotism starts wars.................
no, fear starts wars, Patriotism backs them.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6790
Hmm.........I'll grant that Patriotism typically takes a supporting role, but I maintain that it sometimes starts them as well.  I have to disagree with the first statement, though (at least, in most cases).
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6945
volunteer soldiers are better than ppl who are forced to be in the military
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7066
anyone know why this mutt thinks the Vietnam war didn't happen ?

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