If there wasn't AA the game would be ruined for everyone but the jet people. AA is there to keep the jet whores in check. The game is called 'ARMORED Fury' not 'Open Season on Armor Fury'.
- Index »
- Games »
- Battlefield Series »
- Battlefield 2 »
- Expansions/Mods »
- Armored Fury »
- Is AF catering to "Mobile AA" whores?
Clap clap. Another level-headed Wolverine speaks common sense. As soon as I figure out how to give Karma you're getting +1 LOLCbass wrote:
If there wasn't AA the game would be ruined for everyone but the jet people. AA is there to keep the jet whores in check. The game is called 'ARMORED Fury' not 'Open Season on Armor Fury'.
So, now that someone in the air actually has to worry about AA, they get disgruntled?
And you want all stationary AA "Sitting ducks" again. So that we can return to the status quo and you can just fly around the maps while having the AA sites memorized?
I vote for the latter. Give every map 3-4 mobile AA's in vanilla BF2, and get rid of all the stationary ones. Then adapt and overcome.
And you want all stationary AA "Sitting ducks" again. So that we can return to the status quo and you can just fly around the maps while having the AA sites memorized?
I vote for the latter. Give every map 3-4 mobile AA's in vanilla BF2, and get rid of all the stationary ones. Then adapt and overcome.
i learned to hate the mobile aa last night on harvest.... with the wide open terrain and nothing to hide behind, being in the attack chopper is kinda annoying as it seemed like i always had a tone on me. its gonna take careful teamwork to knock out the aa in order for the attack chopper to do its job in that map cause its easy to pick off the tanks and apcs on that map cause its so wide open...... teamwork
The main problem is that the bombers are sooo sllllllooooooooow, you have no way to get away from a linebacker. Flares give you like 3 seconds, and then you're boned as there are no hills or anything to fly behind. I'm still not happy with the lockon time for AA, it needs to be longer. Choppers also have one chance to tv missile an AA, if they miss, or get caught from behind, you're often dead.
And the little birds... ahh... flying death machines. They're slow and not agile, and can't kill a mobile AA. They die like every time to one.
And the little birds... ahh... flying death machines. They're slow and not agile, and can't kill a mobile AA. They die like every time to one.
Leave the damn AA, I don't care. But for christ sakes give the A10 some more hitpoints. It's just sad. You fly over any AA and if you don't hit it fast and hard and kill it, you'll regret it. Even if you try to wait to fire flares to make sure they didn't bluff you, you'll always get hit and be lucky if you can get out of range to return to base.DSRTurtle wrote:
I love mobile AA. I got a couple of my friends so pissed at me that they were trying to hunt me down in the attack chopper last night. Mobile AA is one of the hardest vehicles to play in the game. You have to look for Air Threats as your primarily good for killing them. But, you also have to watch out for infantry, armor, and at mines as well. The moblie AA takes a lot of skill to use effectively.
I understand people hate getting bombed constantly. yeah it's a pain. But come on, why play armored fury with air vehicles that are slower shittier versions of bombers? I mean that's essentially what the attack planes are. At the very least, they need to be able to take more abuse.
I know, and the cannon needs to be made better. The whole point of the A10 is the cannon, it destroys tanks by itself in rl. I'm not saying it should in af, just so it does some damage. Otherwise you're just using it on jeeps, and the fast jets can do that with a normal MG, and they have afterburner, and AA missiles and can actually dodge AA.
It's all checks and balances. If you're utilizing teamwork then someone else on your TEAM can, and will take out the AA. Usually one vehicle in the game is only effective against one other vehicle or vehicle type. Hence, a big, armored, slow moving plane is good against Tanks/APCs and can hold out against small arms and minor flak but will get owned against most decent IR SAM sites/launchers. If you get killed by a SAM, what do you do - get back in the plane go out and fly the same route and wait for it to happen again, or do you:Delphy wrote:
The main problem is that the bombers are sooo sllllllooooooooow, you have no way to get away from a linebacker. Flares give you like 3 seconds, and then you're boned as there are no hills or anything to fly behind. I'm still not happy with the lockon time for AA, it needs to be longer. Choppers also have one chance to tv missile an AA, if they miss, or get caught from behind, you're often dead.
And the little birds... ahh... flying death machines. They're slow and not agile, and can't kill a mobile AA. They die like every time to one.
A. Hop in a tank go hunt down and kill the SAM
B. Contact your commander and have him direct assets to neutralize the threat
C. Spam your team and hope that someone on the ground can him him
Any one of these tactics can be effective. It's just a change of mindset for the pilot who was used to being ablel to kill ANYTHING on the battlefield and not fear repurcussions. (I mean c'mon who wasn't totally pissed off at being picked off by a supersonic J-10 divebombing single infantrymen?)
Yeah, flares give you 3 seconds to get away - you don't NEED hills to hide behind, I can tell you from experience. You can get away easily in that timeframe - you just have to reconcile yourself to the fact that this part of the battlefield is off limits to you until you can locate and destroy the AA vehicle. The mobile SAMs are highly suceptible while they are coming from the back lots up to the front line - detail someone on your team to keep an eye out for them and spot them on radar for you.
Regarding Choppers in general, I think they are doing quite well in AF. The Little Bird is so darn fast that it's tough to get a bead on the b@stard$. Admittedly, they're easier to kill, but look at what a little-bird is. You shoot that thing with a pistol practically anywhere and you're going to do some decent damage to it in RL. It's just a bubble with a motor attached to it. The attack choppers are doing fine against AA. I've seen some pilots use nape of the earth flying behind treelines and hedgerows quite effectively. Impossible to lock on with missles and nearly impossible to do any damage with the chainguns in the mobile AA. Sure, you only "get one shot" while you pop up for a kill on the mobile SAM, but if you're gunner is good, you are assured of a kill with the TV missle. (how often can mobile SAM drivers say they get/got assured destruction when they engaged a target? More often than not we'd end up damaging a helo and sending him off to repair. Helo comes back - knows where you are, comes in at a different angle - maybe protected by buildinds or landscape - and BAM - SAM is down)
No, I still think things are balanced - across the game. Pilots in general are just going to have to learn how to be team players now. Heck, I was in one server where a clan was running 3 helos together QUITE effectively. Sure, I might take out one of their choppers but they would take me out and go cap a flag or two before I could get another vehicle and make my way back into the fight.
The thing with attack choppers is that you now need to be really good in them to survive, and you need a good gunner. Most of the time they won't talk on voip, and they miss.
I'm kind of better than average at flying, and good with gunning, but it's so frustrating how easily and often you get taken down in the normal course of things. Sure, when it clicks it's fairly all-powerful, but those times are quite rare for me. And it's bs that a stupid fav can take you down. Give choppers back some armour I say.
I'm kind of better than average at flying, and good with gunning, but it's so frustrating how easily and often you get taken down in the normal course of things. Sure, when it clicks it's fairly all-powerful, but those times are quite rare for me. And it's bs that a stupid fav can take you down. Give choppers back some armour I say.
I mentioned this in another post, it is ridiculous. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't fly or happened to play in a server where no one was using them. Midnight sun and road rage can both be a major pain to fly in. For every base without a mobile aa there is a stinger turret and someone manning it. It really gets annoying on midnight sun because the field of battle is so narrow you're forced into the aa's line of sight and half the time you can't see the little bastard hiding behind a tree, which I might add you cannot shoot through. The pine trees in this booster aren't the same as vanilla, you can't shoot through them and you can't skim the tops.
On road rage whoever owns the middle wins just about every time. You can stick to mobile aa's under the underpass there and just hide til you hear a jet, wait for him to go past then lock and unload. An easy kill since the flares work just about as well as if you were flying an f35 i.e. at least 1 will still hit through flares. It sucks if you're wanting to fly the new jet since everyone... wants to fly the new jet. So, get a jet get a couple kills, get shot down, go back to the spawn and find that there are 3 morons waiting for one jet.
And to the poster who said mobile aa is hard... stfu. If you have to deal with air threats and ground threats at the same time you're moving too fast. I still miss the pre-patch days where it took skill to shoot a plane down.
On road rage whoever owns the middle wins just about every time. You can stick to mobile aa's under the underpass there and just hide til you hear a jet, wait for him to go past then lock and unload. An easy kill since the flares work just about as well as if you were flying an f35 i.e. at least 1 will still hit through flares. It sucks if you're wanting to fly the new jet since everyone... wants to fly the new jet. So, get a jet get a couple kills, get shot down, go back to the spawn and find that there are 3 morons waiting for one jet.
And to the poster who said mobile aa is hard... stfu. If you have to deal with air threats and ground threats at the same time you're moving too fast. I still miss the pre-patch days where it took skill to shoot a plane down.
What he said ^^ +1TF501|Slee wrote:
It's all checks and balances. If you're utilizing teamwork then someone else on your TEAM can, and will take out the AA. Usually one vehicle in the game is only effective against one other vehicle or vehicle type. Hence, a big, armored, slow moving plane is good against Tanks/APCs and can hold out against small arms and minor flak but will get owned against most decent IR SAM sites/launchers. If you get killed by a SAM, what do you do - get back in the plane go out and fly the same route and wait for it to happen again, or do you:Delphy wrote:
The main problem is that the bombers are sooo sllllllooooooooow, you have no way to get away from a linebacker. Flares give you like 3 seconds, and then you're boned as there are no hills or anything to fly behind. I'm still not happy with the lockon time for AA, it needs to be longer. Choppers also have one chance to tv missile an AA, if they miss, or get caught from behind, you're often dead.
And the little birds... ahh... flying death machines. They're slow and not agile, and can't kill a mobile AA. They die like every time to one.
A. Hop in a tank go hunt down and kill the SAM
B. Contact your commander and have him direct assets to neutralize the threat
C. Spam your team and hope that someone on the ground can him him
Any one of these tactics can be effective. It's just a change of mindset for the pilot who was used to being ablel to kill ANYTHING on the battlefield and not fear repurcussions. (I mean c'mon who wasn't totally pissed off at being picked off by a supersonic J-10 divebombing single infantrymen?)
Yeah, flares give you 3 seconds to get away - you don't NEED hills to hide behind, I can tell you from experience. You can get away easily in that timeframe - you just have to reconcile yourself to the fact that this part of the battlefield is off limits to you until you can locate and destroy the AA vehicle. The mobile SAMs are highly suceptible while they are coming from the back lots up to the front line - detail someone on your team to keep an eye out for them and spot them on radar for you.
Regarding Choppers in general, I think they are doing quite well in AF. The Little Bird is so darn fast that it's tough to get a bead on the b@stard$. Admittedly, they're easier to kill, but look at what a little-bird is. You shoot that thing with a pistol practically anywhere and you're going to do some decent damage to it in RL. It's just a bubble with a motor attached to it. The attack choppers are doing fine against AA. I've seen some pilots use nape of the earth flying behind treelines and hedgerows quite effectively. Impossible to lock on with missles and nearly impossible to do any damage with the chainguns in the mobile AA. Sure, you only "get one shot" while you pop up for a kill on the mobile SAM, but if you're gunner is good, you are assured of a kill with the TV missle. (how often can mobile SAM drivers say they get/got assured destruction when they engaged a target? More often than not we'd end up damaging a helo and sending him off to repair. Helo comes back - knows where you are, comes in at a different angle - maybe protected by buildinds or landscape - and BAM - SAM is down)
No, I still think things are balanced - across the game. Pilots in general are just going to have to learn how to be team players now. Heck, I was in one server where a clan was running 3 helos together QUITE effectively. Sure, I might take out one of their choppers but they would take me out and go cap a flag or two before I could get another vehicle and make my way back into the fight.
I don't have a problem with aa on that map because it is wide open and you will usually get locked onto at the range of the aa. So you drop flares, lose altitude and get some distance. Then turn around and look. Hopefully your commander doesn't suck and has already spotted him or you were smart enough to change views when you turned to see where the missiles came from. The hard part for me is I'm still learning where all the turrets are but IMO harvest is dominated by a good chopper. I feel sorry for slow moving oblivious tanks driving through a golden field, they stick out like a sore thumb.comet241 wrote:
i learned to hate the mobile aa last night on harvest.... with the wide open terrain and nothing to hide behind, being in the attack chopper is kinda annoying as it seemed like i always had a tone on me. its gonna take careful teamwork to knock out the aa in order for the attack chopper to do its job in that map cause its easy to pick off the tanks and apcs on that map cause its so wide open...... teamwork
You do need a gunner on most of these maps that can gun down aa turrets cause you usually don't have enough time to hit them with a tv by switching seats, nor are you able to get close enough to rocket them, usually.
I like the Linebacker, (MEC AA sux) it can actually keep your armor convoys alive now instead of getting bombed every 2 mins.
LOLIs AF catering to "Mobile AA" whores?
Cry me a river.
I'm not an experienced pilot, I'll admit. But I think I'd have more sympathy for this argument if the booster wasn't called "Armoured Fury". The whole idea is that it's focused on the armour. If it was "Airborne Fury", then sure, the planes should be having the better time of it.Turtle wrote:
I mentioned this in another post, it is ridiculous. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't fly or happened to play in a server where no one was using them. Midnight sun and road rage can both be a major pain to fly in. For every base without a mobile aa there is a stinger turret and someone manning it. It really gets annoying on midnight sun because the field of battle is so narrow you're forced into the aa's line of sight and half the time you can't see the little bastard hiding behind a tree, which I might add you cannot shoot through. The pine trees in this booster aren't the same as vanilla, you can't shoot through them and you can't skim the tops.
On road rage whoever owns the middle wins just about every time. You can stick to mobile aa's under the underpass there and just hide til you hear a jet, wait for him to go past then lock and unload. An easy kill since the flares work just about as well as if you were flying an f35 i.e. at least 1 will still hit through flares. It sucks if you're wanting to fly the new jet since everyone... wants to fly the new jet. So, get a jet get a couple kills, get shot down, go back to the spawn and find that there are 3 morons waiting for one jet.
And to the poster who said mobile aa is hard... stfu. If you have to deal with air threats and ground threats at the same time you're moving too fast. I still miss the pre-patch days where it took skill to shoot a plane down.
But in this case, the game is designed so that it's pretty difficult to dominate the battle with airpower. And I like that. There are plenty of maps where the airforce runs away with things, like Cleansweep or Tabara Quarry. While playing AF, I think it's simply going to be a case of "flying is dangerous", and that's the design intention. Think of it as a way to encourage people out of the skys and into the armour.
Yes, aircraft get shot down easily in AF. My opinion is that this is a good thing, as otherwise the armour, which is meant to be the star of the show, would get hammered too often. If the AF maps didn't have the amount of AA that they do, then people wanting tank battles would be better off on Operation Smokescreen. As it is, it's a [/]different[/i] style of play, and surely that's the point of add-ons?
That's my take on it, anyway. New stuff, new style, new focus. This time around the aircraft get shafted. Next booster'll probably have a "Battle of Britain" style map, and anyone not off the ground will have to spend lots of time watching those 15 seconds tick away.
Delphy - yep, you need a copilot/gunner who you can trust and whom you can talk to. If EA/Dice was looking to increase teamwork and promote the use of strategy, I'd say they're on their way to doing this. BF2 AF is more than just a run & gun with a single player being able to jump in a map and run the board. It's a team game with squads and a commander.
Convoys are definitely a good use of teamwork and combined arms. I found myself in a mobile AA the other night following 2 tanks down the highway. I was an engy and repaired them when needed (by proximity) but meanwhile kept the A-10s off them (mostly). Every now and then an A-10 scored a catastrophic kill on one of my sheep, but the flock endured and was able to pick off the singleton tanks opposing them with teamwork. Thus progress was made and we were able advance "down the throat" to the next objective on the highway. Now, if the tanks had stopped for any length of time, or the NME commander had been able to project our movement with rudimentary accuracy, we'd have been points waiting to happen for a nice arty barrage.
See, there we go again - to every tactic and weapon there is a counter-tactic. Use teamwork for the win, Luke!
Convoys are definitely a good use of teamwork and combined arms. I found myself in a mobile AA the other night following 2 tanks down the highway. I was an engy and repaired them when needed (by proximity) but meanwhile kept the A-10s off them (mostly). Every now and then an A-10 scored a catastrophic kill on one of my sheep, but the flock endured and was able to pick off the singleton tanks opposing them with teamwork. Thus progress was made and we were able advance "down the throat" to the next objective on the highway. Now, if the tanks had stopped for any length of time, or the NME commander had been able to project our movement with rudimentary accuracy, we'd have been points waiting to happen for a nice arty barrage.
See, there we go again - to every tactic and weapon there is a counter-tactic. Use teamwork for the win, Luke!
BOOHOO. I consider it a compliment when people in Helos and Jets go out of there way to hunt me down in mobile AA. It means I'm doing my job to help my team win. Yes I get pissed at getting killed repeatedly by jets and bombers. But on the Maps with mobile AA I fight back with a different method.Syran_the_Heretic wrote:
Leave the damn AA, I don't care. But for christ sakes give the A10 some more hitpoints. It's just sad. You fly over any AA and if you don't hit it fast and hard and kill it, you'll regret it. Even if you try to wait to fire flares to make sure they didn't bluff you, you'll always get hit and be lucky if you can get out of range to return to base.DSRTurtle wrote:
I love mobile AA. I got a couple of my friends so pissed at me that they were trying to hunt me down in the attack chopper last night. Mobile AA is one of the hardest vehicles to play in the game. You have to look for Air Threats as your primarily good for killing them. But, you also have to watch out for infantry, armor, and at mines as well. The moblie AA takes a lot of skill to use effectively.
I understand people hate getting bombed constantly. yeah it's a pain. But come on, why play armored fury with air vehicles that are slower shittier versions of bombers? I mean that's essentially what the attack planes are. At the very least, they need to be able to take more abuse.
A synopsis of AA over the course of BF2:
AA pre-1.2 - completely ineffective
AA post-1.2 - marginally effective
Defined as:
- sometimes firing from a fixed emplacement you will get a hit - that hit will only take the plane to 65% health, but it's still a hit
- vs any decent pilot firing 2 fixed SAMs = no damage and a big, red crosshair. Count the seconds until you die (there were occasions I was able to get 6 shots off from a fixed SAM - still didn't take the plane out, but damn it made me feel good living long enough to actually fire 6 shots)
- AA emplacements are repeatedly strafed/bombed with impunity - to go near one = your death
- Planes able to dive bomb/strafe with pinpoint accuracy a single human being while going mach 2 but AA is unable to lock on, fire, and hit until AFTER the plane has turned away (gee, I hope you're still alive)
AA Post-AF - Effective as any other part of the game
- Enough mobile SAMs to keep pilots honest
- Enough fixed SAMs to be convenient enough to hop in them in several map locations on these LARGE maps, OR grab a buddy and have you both get in and pincer the plane between you (maybe enough shots will actually hit to do moderate damage)
- Mobile SAMS are still easily killed by: Tanks, APCs, guys with shoulder-fired AT rockets, mines, or planes, provided you can locate them
Heck, I'm still waiting for the shoulder-fired Stinger to make it's appearance. Load one of those babies up in the otherwise completely useless passenger slot on the mobile AA and damn - you'd have a heck of a plane-killing machine! (or a flight deck on Iron Gator that was not constantly owned by the Havoc)
AA pre-1.2 - completely ineffective
AA post-1.2 - marginally effective
Defined as:
- sometimes firing from a fixed emplacement you will get a hit - that hit will only take the plane to 65% health, but it's still a hit
- vs any decent pilot firing 2 fixed SAMs = no damage and a big, red crosshair. Count the seconds until you die (there were occasions I was able to get 6 shots off from a fixed SAM - still didn't take the plane out, but damn it made me feel good living long enough to actually fire 6 shots)
- AA emplacements are repeatedly strafed/bombed with impunity - to go near one = your death
- Planes able to dive bomb/strafe with pinpoint accuracy a single human being while going mach 2 but AA is unable to lock on, fire, and hit until AFTER the plane has turned away (gee, I hope you're still alive)
AA Post-AF - Effective as any other part of the game
- Enough mobile SAMs to keep pilots honest
- Enough fixed SAMs to be convenient enough to hop in them in several map locations on these LARGE maps, OR grab a buddy and have you both get in and pincer the plane between you (maybe enough shots will actually hit to do moderate damage)
- Mobile SAMS are still easily killed by: Tanks, APCs, guys with shoulder-fired AT rockets, mines, or planes, provided you can locate them
Heck, I'm still waiting for the shoulder-fired Stinger to make it's appearance. Load one of those babies up in the otherwise completely useless passenger slot on the mobile AA and damn - you'd have a heck of a plane-killing machine! (or a flight deck on Iron Gator that was not constantly owned by the Havoc)
The AA's just fine.. I went 20-1 in the A-10 on Midnight Sun, once again, a lot of AA sites and at least two AA tanks for each team, you just need to know where to bomb from and how to "fly with flares".. and im not even a good pilot
here here.DSRTurtle wrote:
BOOHOO. I consider it a compliment when people in Helos and Jets go out of there way to hunt me down in mobile AA. It means I'm doing my job to help my team win. Yes I get pissed at getting killed repeatedly by jets and bombers. But on the Maps with mobile AA I fight back with a different method.
There is nothing more discouraging than spawining at the main base and seeing 10 of your 'team members' flash banging / M95ing / TK Punishing each other over the available aircraft while the NME is nailing the rest of the team to the wall using teamwork.
The lack of Jet A/C is the good thing about SF and I am ever so grateful at the nice folks over at EA/DICE for recognizing the imbalances in the Wake / Oman type maps.
If you wan't to fly in AF, you'll have to adapt, play smart and duke it out like everyone else.
As Slee said, Teamwork is key. A lone Linebacker or equal doesn't stand a chance alone against a Tank, APC, TOW, or AT Infantryman so there is your balance of power.
"Rock Paper Scissors" as the DEVs at EA/DICE have stated.
As some have pointed out, the name is 'Armored Fury' not A10 Flight simulator 5.0
nuff said.
Last edited by TF501|Rocker (2006-06-08 11:27:32)
gawd i tried to take off in Road Rage (A10) and i fly over the Overpass and 3-4 Tunguskas plus fixed guns fire at least 2 missiles each. It was madness at the 'You will respawn in: XX' screen. AA flying everywhere!!
Did EA think that the A10 was this amazing? I beg to differ
Did EA think that the A10 was this amazing? I beg to differ
They need to do 2 things to fix AA in BF2.
1. Make the AA cannons a lot stronger and able to take down jets and helos with GOOD aim (yes something that requires skill)
2. Make AA missiles nolonger hit heli's. The chanced based stuff is so fucking stupid, it's an FPS not an RPG game where you luck out and get a critical hit.
I know it will be really hard to get the AA cannon to hit something fast moving like a jet so thats why i left in AA missiles....jets have no counters besides jets and dedicated AA. Stingers are a joke for jets as they all get a nice green rectangle painted over them.
1. Make the AA cannons a lot stronger and able to take down jets and helos with GOOD aim (yes something that requires skill)
2. Make AA missiles nolonger hit heli's. The chanced based stuff is so fucking stupid, it's an FPS not an RPG game where you luck out and get a critical hit.
I know it will be really hard to get the AA cannon to hit something fast moving like a jet so thats why i left in AA missiles....jets have no counters besides jets and dedicated AA. Stingers are a joke for jets as they all get a nice green rectangle painted over them.
AA vehicles are pathetic, I can't remember the last time someone managed to shoot me down with one. Just fly high and drop high.
And most people use it as a tranport to get to flags. It is meant to kill aircraft so your teammates can get the flags. SIGH.DSRTurtle wrote:
I love mobile AA. I got a couple of my friends so pissed at me that they were trying to hunt me down in the attack chopper last night. Mobile AA is one of the hardest vehicles to play in the game. You have to look for Air Threats as your primarily good for killing them. But, you also have to watch out for infantry, armor, and at mines as well. The moblie AA takes a lot of skill to use effectively.
The US economy is a giant Ponzi scheme. And 'to big to fail' is code speak for 'niahnahniahniahnah 99 percenters'
Im An Expert In Aa, I Love The Way The Balance Of Power Has Switched More Or Less To The Infantry's Favour, Rather Than Having A Plane Ace Hovering Above You All The Time.....all The Grunt Hears Is The Groan Of The Bombers In Af Then Boom! Whereas Aa Can Support An Advancing Column Of Friendly Tanks If Played Effectively. It Brings More Teamplay To The Game. However Now I Got The Gold Aa Badge I Play As A Sniper, And Fuck Do I Suck The Big One At It....**looks For A New Aa To Get Into**!!
- Index »
- Games »
- Battlefield Series »
- Battlefield 2 »
- Expansions/Mods »
- Armored Fury »
- Is AF catering to "Mobile AA" whores?