No, they just went ahead and did exactly that to Palestine, with the americans help of course. Before the creation of Israel, Palestine was recognised as a country by all other Arab states and pretty much the rest of the world. What do you expect if you stick a bunch of Jews slap bang in the middle of a bunch of Arabs and then decide to give them nukes...it's almost funny!GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
Israel never pledged the annihilation of another sovereign state.RicardoBlanco wrote:
They want to give the Iranians light water reactors...
I'm more worried about the Israeli's having nukes anyway, I wonder where they got those from? *sarcasm* , what the fuck they're doing there and why they need approximately 200 of them...No wonder Iran gets edgy!
No, you're right about their revenues from oil but not about the impact disrupted oil supplies would have on the US/ Europe. The economic implications would be much wider and affect the rest of the world. Iran would lose very little and would probably still export enough to Russia/China to get by...Nagarond.Damminson wrote:
Ayatollah Khamenei can talk all he wants, but you have to realize that over half of iran's income is from the oil sector, so they would hurt themselves more than they would hurt the US.
As for nuclear technology, the enrichment is the issue. Normal light water reactors need about 3-10% enrichment of fissile material to become critical (functional), while weapon grade is 90%+. The problem is that light water reactors (H20) can be used as breeder reactors to help make fissle material (Uranium-233. Uranium-235. Plutonium-239.) which is what you want for making weapons (as a side note, fissile material is the 'enriched' product). On the other hand, heavy water reactors(H30), require no fissile material, but unfortunatly the heavy water is also the same material that is needed to make a hydrogen bomb, as opposed to the regular nuke.
It is really a catch 22, and i have no problem with them using nuclear power, but you can't expect much support when you threaten to blow up your neighbor, or deny/belittle the holocaust.
If iran could demonstrate some inner stability and rational as a country, they would only help themselves, and everyone else.
As for 'inner stability' the last and only country they attacked in modern times was Iraq which I believe the americans did too.
I also believe the american govournment is the only one to have not completely ruled out the use of nuclear weapons, tactical or not...I don't believe the Iranians have much any such claims.
your right ricardo, and you won't get me debating on american policy, but the Ayatollah is also a religious figure, not a political one. He may carry a lot of weight in Iran, but he doesn't make the decisions. I am sure the iranian president would prefer the Ayatollah to make the comments/threats, because then The government of iran can still maintain that they didnt make threats, but with the weight the ayatollah carries, the comments still have an obvious impact upon american assets (as evidenced by the fact oil jumped after he made them). They would still be hurting themselves though by cutting off oil supplies. Given the parity of how oil flows throughout the world, american would make up the slack in some way, and distribute the hardships throughout the world, the large oil companies making a huge amount of their profits in the US would guarentee that, because they still want oil going to the US so they can post even more record profits.
And i can hope to god that even Bush isn't too out there enough to consider using nukes.
And i would bet the iranians want nukes for the sheer fact of having them. They want the deterrant of it more than the tactical purposes of having it.
And by stability, i mean reason within the government and the country. The government doesnt have to attack anyone, but if they harbor and encourage an environment where it encourages extreme behavior/violence towards other countries/groups, then they are just as unstable and dangerous as if they were themselves committing the violence. Sure, they don't attack anyone, they just say someone should be wiped off of the earth... not much better, and a thin line at best seperating those two.
And i can hope to god that even Bush isn't too out there enough to consider using nukes.
And i would bet the iranians want nukes for the sheer fact of having them. They want the deterrant of it more than the tactical purposes of having it.
And by stability, i mean reason within the government and the country. The government doesnt have to attack anyone, but if they harbor and encourage an environment where it encourages extreme behavior/violence towards other countries/groups, then they are just as unstable and dangerous as if they were themselves committing the violence. Sure, they don't attack anyone, they just say someone should be wiped off of the earth... not much better, and a thin line at best seperating those two.
there is a much deeper history of israel that goes before 1947RicardoBlanco wrote:
No, they just went ahead and did exactly that to Palestine, with the americans help of course. Before the creation of Israel, Palestine was recognised as a country by all other Arab states and pretty much the rest of the world. What do you expect if you stick a bunch of Jews slap bang in the middle of a bunch of Arabs and then decide to give them nukes...it's almost funny!GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
Israel never pledged the annihilation of another sovereign state.RicardoBlanco wrote:
They want to give the Iranians light water reactors...
I'm more worried about the Israeli's having nukes anyway, I wonder where they got those from? *sarcasm* , what the fuck they're doing there and why they need approximately 200 of them...No wonder Iran gets edgy!
Give us a break Gunslinger from what I assume to be biblical bullshit. The fact of the matter is that that region of the world has been home to many races of people for various periods of time over the course of recorded history. Forcibly evicting millions of people from their homes to create a jewish 'democracy' in the 40s makes them almost as bad as the nazis.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
there is a much deeper history of israel that goes before 1947RicardoBlanco wrote:
No, they just went ahead and did exactly that to Palestine, with the americans help of course. Before the creation of Israel, Palestine was recognised as a country by all other Arab states and pretty much the rest of the world. What do you expect if you stick a bunch of Jews slap bang in the middle of a bunch of Arabs and then decide to give them nukes...it's almost funny!GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
Israel never pledged the annihilation of another sovereign state.
i think you misread the dude chuy, from what i read i didnt take anything out of thatto mean that he thinks were giving iran nukes.
there wouldnt even be an isreali state had there not been arab violence against the jews "aliyah" you could argue all day about whether thats a natural or reasonable reaction but the fact remains isreal exists because of the arabs. segregating 2 people is nothing close to launching a war that killed millions of people and attempted to exterminate a race ..you seriously need some perspective.
wtf are you talking about ? you can be agnositc atheist w/e and know that the jews have more history there than 1947-present..CameronPoe wrote:
Give us a break Gunslinger from what I assume to be biblical bullshit.
there wouldnt even be an isreali state had there not been arab violence against the jews "aliyah" you could argue all day about whether thats a natural or reasonable reaction but the fact remains isreal exists because of the arabs. segregating 2 people is nothing close to launching a war that killed millions of people and attempted to exterminate a race ..you seriously need some perspective.
actually they started migrating back to isreal on thier own and recieved help from britain and the UN. today most countries dont recognise the state of palestine.RicardoBlanco wrote:
No, they just went ahead and did exactly that to Palestine, with the americans help of course. Before the creation of Israel, Palestine was recognised as a country by all other Arab states and pretty much the rest of the world.
Code:
on November 15, 1988 by the Palestinian National Council, the legislative body of the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO). The proclaimed "State of Palestine" is not and has never actually been an independent state, as it has never had sovereignty over any territory.
biblical?!?!?! what the fuck are you talking about smart guy. Im talking about the partitoion of the ottoman empire in 1922 when the british and french and russians re-drew the lines and borders of the middle east following the events of ww1. yeah yeah, its so fucking easy to blame the british about something. i can tell you havent looked at both sides of the story. You wanna blame anybody, blame the ottoman turks for allowing such a disorganized infastructure and society. Its their fault you have the massive of amounts of different ethnic groups in such a small concentrated area. the truth is, both groups of people have been there for centuries and to claim that either side has right to the land is ludricous. but the fucking reality is, Israel has the guns, the money and heart to keep a nation in tact and the palestinians cant even govern themselves properly. in this world there is no such thing as right or wrong, just reality and to keep crying and complaining about something out of your control is retardedCameronPoe wrote:
Give us a break Gunslinger from what I assume to be biblical bullshit. The fact of the matter is that that region of the world has been home to many races of people for various periods of time over the course of recorded history. Forcibly evicting millions of people from their homes to create a jewish 'democracy' in the 40s makes them almost as bad as the nazis.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
there is a much deeper history of israel that goes before 1947RicardoBlanco wrote:
No, they just went ahead and did exactly that to Palestine, with the americans help of course. Before the creation of Israel, Palestine was recognised as a country by all other Arab states and pretty much the rest of the world. What do you expect if you stick a bunch of Jews slap bang in the middle of a bunch of Arabs and then decide to give them nukes...it's almost funny!
ummm allah ackbar
Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2006-06-07 12:45:34)
I agree with you on certain points but you're making presumptions about my views and about my knowledge of the situation and the history in that particular region of the world. I incorrectly judged you to be making a flippant 'the bible says so' remark and I was wrong. I know that the nations in the middle east were only carved up after the collapse of the ottoman empire and I know Israel won their 'war of independence' because of their of their military might and resourcefulness (their can-do). As you say, that part of the world has been inhabited by all sorts of ethnic groups for eons. The fact of the matter though is that Israel were not 'entitled' to drive the arabs from their homes just because they could. Germany are paying reparations to jews for decades now - where are the reparations for the poor fuckers booted out of their homes in 'Palestine' or whatever you want to define it as. The definition is of no consequence - the fact that 2 million arabs were left destitute is what matters. Have you perhaps wondered why the Palestinians can't govern themselves? Because they live in shitty conditions in the largest concentration camps ever created (the west bank and gaza strip) with no proper trade connections to the outside world. Not to mention the fact that the Israelis won't let them successfully govern because it is not in their interest (easier to demonise and patronise arabs in the international media). Palestinian desparation is probably why the people switched their allegiance from the moderates to the hardliners in the recent election. Good to see that USA is backing their democratic choice ... how consistent of them...GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
biblical?!?!?! what the fuck are you talking about smart guy. Im talking about the partitoion of the ottoman empire in 1922 when the british and french and russians re-drew the lines and borders of the middle east following the events of ww1. yeah yeah, its so fucking easy to blame the british about something. i can tell you havent looked at both sides of the story. You wanna blame anybody, blame the ottoman turks for allowing such a disorganized infastructure and society. Its their fault you have the massive of amounts of different ethnic groups in such a small concentrated area. the truth is, both groups of people have been there for centuries and to claim that either side has right to the land is ludricous. but the fucking reality is, Israel has the guns, the money and heart to keep a nation in tact and the palestinians cant even govern themselves properly. in this world there is no such thing as right or wrong, just reality and to keep crying and complaining about something out of your control is retardedCameronPoe wrote:
Give us a break Gunslinger from what I assume to be biblical bullshit. The fact of the matter is that that region of the world has been home to many races of people for various periods of time over the course of recorded history. Forcibly evicting millions of people from their homes to create a jewish 'democracy' in the 40s makes them almost as bad as the nazis.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
there is a much deeper history of israel that goes before 1947
ummm allah ackbar
Gimme a break with the allah ackbar bit - I'm interested in justice not jihad.
PS It wasn't just arab violence towards jews pre-1948 - the jews were just as guilty. Then they were both 'terrorist' factions. I guess because the jews came out on top they became 'the good guys'. Funny that.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-06-07 15:00:29)
Neither did Iran. You are the bearer of misconception. Thus, my previous points provide evidencing, as exemplified through the understandings (or, misunderstandings) of yourself.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
Israel never pledged the annihilation of another sovereign state.RicardoBlanco wrote:
They want to give the Iranians light water reactors...
I'm more worried about the Israeli's having nukes anyway, I wonder where they got those from? *sarcasm* , what the fuck they're doing there and why they need approximately 200 of them...No wonder Iran gets edgy!
Anyways, the point that needs to be emphasized is how fucking far off one must enrich to reach weapons grade as opposed to functionality as a source of energy. Naggarond.Damminson did an excellent job, although I really think such information should be emplaced at the beginning of a thread, so that objectivity and transparency remain throughout the course of the debate, if one is even needed at that point. But hey, what would the point of debate be if everyone had such foresight themselves?
But still, your supporting Israel's allowed ascertainment of WMDs is after the fact, and insomuch, completely inapplicable. The focal point is that we are allies with them, and that such a relation is so extremely strategic. Should someone wants to disturb the status quo (with an open exertion), they will rear the backlash.
Last edited by Xietsu (2006-06-07 17:09:54)
Wipe Israel out, urges Iran's president
Iran's hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Wednesday openly called for Israel to be "wiped off the map" and lashed out at Muslim nations who recognize the Jewish state.
Stefan Smith
Thursday, October 27, 2005
Iran's hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Wednesday openly called for Israel to be "wiped off the map" and lashed out at Muslim nations who recognize the Jewish state.
"The establishment of the Zionist regime was a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world," the president told a conference - The World without Zionism - in Teheran. "The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land."
Calling the situation an "historic war between the oppressor and the world of Islam," Ahmadinejad went on: "As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map." He was referring to Iran's revolutionary leader, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.
His comments were the first time in years that such a high-ranking Iranian official has called for Israel's eradication, though such slogans are still used regularly at rallies.
Addressing some 4,000 students gathered in an interior ministry conference hall, Ahmadinejad also called for Palestinian unity, resistance and "the annihilation of the Zionist regime."
His appearance at the conference drew chants of "Death to Israel," and Ahmadinejad quickly told students - all wearing black with green headbands - to shout the slogan louder. "The Islamic umma [community] will not allow its historic enemy to live in its heartland," said the president, an austere veteran of Iran's hardline Revolutionary Guards who took office in August after scoring a landslide win in a June presidential election.
"Anyone who signs a treaty which recognizes the entity of Israel means he has signed the surrender of the Muslim world," Ahmadinejad said, telling Muslim leaders who recognize Israel that they "face the wrath of their own people."
And he said of Israel's recent pullout from the Gaza Strip: "We should not settle for a piece of land."
His tone represents a dramatic change from that of former president Mohammad Khatami, whose favored topic was "dialogue among civilizations" and who led an effort to improve Iran's relations with the West.
Ahmadinejad instead spoke of an "historic war" between Islam and the West.
"It dates backs hundreds of years," he said. "Sometimes Islam has advanced. Sometimes nobody was winning. Unfortunately over the past 300 years, the world of Islam has been in retreat."
In Jerusalem, Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom responded by saying that it is clear Iran is trying to develop atomic weapons, adding: "Iran is a clear and present danger." AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1509734/posts
Iran's hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Wednesday openly called for Israel to be "wiped off the map" and lashed out at Muslim nations who recognize the Jewish state.
Stefan Smith
Thursday, October 27, 2005
Iran's hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Wednesday openly called for Israel to be "wiped off the map" and lashed out at Muslim nations who recognize the Jewish state.
"The establishment of the Zionist regime was a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world," the president told a conference - The World without Zionism - in Teheran. "The skirmishes in the occupied land are part of a war of destiny. The outcome of hundreds of years of war will be defined in Palestinian land."
Calling the situation an "historic war between the oppressor and the world of Islam," Ahmadinejad went on: "As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map." He was referring to Iran's revolutionary leader, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.
His comments were the first time in years that such a high-ranking Iranian official has called for Israel's eradication, though such slogans are still used regularly at rallies.
Addressing some 4,000 students gathered in an interior ministry conference hall, Ahmadinejad also called for Palestinian unity, resistance and "the annihilation of the Zionist regime."
His appearance at the conference drew chants of "Death to Israel," and Ahmadinejad quickly told students - all wearing black with green headbands - to shout the slogan louder. "The Islamic umma [community] will not allow its historic enemy to live in its heartland," said the president, an austere veteran of Iran's hardline Revolutionary Guards who took office in August after scoring a landslide win in a June presidential election.
"Anyone who signs a treaty which recognizes the entity of Israel means he has signed the surrender of the Muslim world," Ahmadinejad said, telling Muslim leaders who recognize Israel that they "face the wrath of their own people."
And he said of Israel's recent pullout from the Gaza Strip: "We should not settle for a piece of land."
His tone represents a dramatic change from that of former president Mohammad Khatami, whose favored topic was "dialogue among civilizations" and who led an effort to improve Iran's relations with the West.
Ahmadinejad instead spoke of an "historic war" between Islam and the West.
"It dates backs hundreds of years," he said. "Sometimes Islam has advanced. Sometimes nobody was winning. Unfortunately over the past 300 years, the world of Islam has been in retreat."
In Jerusalem, Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom responded by saying that it is clear Iran is trying to develop atomic weapons, adding: "Iran is a clear and present danger." AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1509734/posts
Again, just more proof. You are claiming he intends to destroy Israel. Incorrect. He believes that Israel should just be disbanded and redispersed to their origin, if not relocated to Europe or some crazy crap like that. There is no suggestion -- were you to proceed with all rationality at hand -- that a violent move of aggression is an Iranian goal (i.e. nuclear devastation of Israel). Although they may support such an assail by the Palestinians against Israel, the simple fact is that his words are turned against him, out of context, in an effort of propagandizing a certain stance. Yeah, somehow fail to notice the bullshit twisting and reconfiguring the author of this article makes in the beginning? This is what you call mindless, machinistic, droning. Iran has positive intentions, their PM is merely a little out of touch with rationality when it comes to the handling of the Middle East. He is not extremist, although his choice of words may have been utilized as to provide that extra oomph, although they can be gravely misinterpreted as well. Of course, I would suppose he is so surely aware of that as of now.
(P.S. Editted previous reply as to clarify the US-Izzy relationship)
(P.S. Editted previous reply as to clarify the US-Izzy relationship)
Last edited by Xietsu (2006-06-07 17:10:33)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh … wstop.html
Israel will be annihilated in one storm, says Iran leader
By Tim Butcher, Middle East Correspondent
(Filed: 15/04/2006)
Your view: what should we do about Iran?
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran appeared to threaten Israel with a nuclear attack yesterday when he described it as a "rotten, dried tree" that would be annihilated by "one storm".
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
In his most vitriolic and anti-semitic attack to date, Mr Ahmadinejad warned that Israel faced imminent destruction.
While he did not refer explicitly to nuclear weapons, his reference to the "one storm" that would do away with Israel was seen as a code for nuclear Armageddon.
Iran does not yet have nuclear weapons but Teheran is widely believed to be bent on developing its own nuclear military capability, in defiance of international protocols and peace treaties. Yesterday's outburst will only worsen the stand-off between Iran and the major powers over its nuclear ambitions.
President George W Bush, like many US leaders before him, is an ardent supporter of Israel and his administration would not stand by if Iran posed a threat to it.
Israel for its part has warned that it would not allow Iran to acquire a nuclear capability. Israel is the only Middle Eastern country with nuclear weapons although it never publicly admits this.
Speaking at the opening of a conference in Teheran to support the Palestinian cause, Mr Ahmadinejad repeated earlier anti-semitic attacks in Israel, questioning the scale of the Nazi Holocaust and attacking Zionism.
"Like it or not, the Zionist regime is heading toward annihilation," he said. "The Zionist regime is a rotten, dried tree that will be eliminated by one storm."
And he poured scorn on the established history of the Holocaust, saying that an atrocity committed in Europe should be settled in Europe.
"If such a disaster is true, why should the people of this region pay the price? Why does the Palestinian nation have to be suppressed and have its land occupied?"
The land of Palestine, he said, referring to the British mandated territory that includes all of Israel, Gaza and the West Bank, "will be freed soon".
He did not say how this would be achieved, but insisted to the audience of at least 900: "Believe that Palestine will be freed soon." The president provoked world outcry last October when he said Israel should be "wiped off the map".
Mr Ahmadinejad was speaking days after an Israeli general spoke of the military potential of Iran's nuclear programme.
The chief of military intelligence, Maj-Gen Amos Yadlin, was quoted on Wednesday as saying Iran could develop a nuclear bomb "within three years, by the end of the decade".
A day earlier, Mr Ahmadinejad had announced that Iran had successfully enriched uranium using a battery of 164 centrifuges, a significant step toward the large-scale production of enriched uranium required for either fuelling nuclear reactors or making nuclear bombs.
Meanwhile, the head of Iran's Revolutionary Guards yesterday warned the US not to attack the Islamic republic, saying that American troops in Iraq and the region were vulnerable.
General Yahya Rahim Safavi, one of Teheran's most powerful figures, said of the US: "You can start a war but it won't be you who finishes it.
"The Iranian armed forces are totally ready to defend the country. If the Americans attack Iran, they will be making a second strategic error after their attack against Iraq."
Speaking at the pro-Palestinian conference in Teheran, the general warned: "The Americans know better than anyone that their troops in the region and in Iraq are vulnerable. I would advise them not to commit such a strategic error."
just because i dont agree with you doesnt mean i dont understand what the fuck we're talking about, I would think an intelligent person who writes as eloquently as yourself would realize that people have different opinions other than your own so you dont have to be so god damn condescending. Nevertheless, I dont paricularly like to argue evidence and historic fact with Idealogues, and thats apparently what you are. I like to look at everything in life from different angles, neither left or right.
Israel will be annihilated in one storm, says Iran leader
By Tim Butcher, Middle East Correspondent
(Filed: 15/04/2006)
Your view: what should we do about Iran?
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran appeared to threaten Israel with a nuclear attack yesterday when he described it as a "rotten, dried tree" that would be annihilated by "one storm".
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
In his most vitriolic and anti-semitic attack to date, Mr Ahmadinejad warned that Israel faced imminent destruction.
While he did not refer explicitly to nuclear weapons, his reference to the "one storm" that would do away with Israel was seen as a code for nuclear Armageddon.
Iran does not yet have nuclear weapons but Teheran is widely believed to be bent on developing its own nuclear military capability, in defiance of international protocols and peace treaties. Yesterday's outburst will only worsen the stand-off between Iran and the major powers over its nuclear ambitions.
President George W Bush, like many US leaders before him, is an ardent supporter of Israel and his administration would not stand by if Iran posed a threat to it.
Israel for its part has warned that it would not allow Iran to acquire a nuclear capability. Israel is the only Middle Eastern country with nuclear weapons although it never publicly admits this.
Speaking at the opening of a conference in Teheran to support the Palestinian cause, Mr Ahmadinejad repeated earlier anti-semitic attacks in Israel, questioning the scale of the Nazi Holocaust and attacking Zionism.
"Like it or not, the Zionist regime is heading toward annihilation," he said. "The Zionist regime is a rotten, dried tree that will be eliminated by one storm."
And he poured scorn on the established history of the Holocaust, saying that an atrocity committed in Europe should be settled in Europe.
"If such a disaster is true, why should the people of this region pay the price? Why does the Palestinian nation have to be suppressed and have its land occupied?"
The land of Palestine, he said, referring to the British mandated territory that includes all of Israel, Gaza and the West Bank, "will be freed soon".
He did not say how this would be achieved, but insisted to the audience of at least 900: "Believe that Palestine will be freed soon." The president provoked world outcry last October when he said Israel should be "wiped off the map".
Mr Ahmadinejad was speaking days after an Israeli general spoke of the military potential of Iran's nuclear programme.
The chief of military intelligence, Maj-Gen Amos Yadlin, was quoted on Wednesday as saying Iran could develop a nuclear bomb "within three years, by the end of the decade".
A day earlier, Mr Ahmadinejad had announced that Iran had successfully enriched uranium using a battery of 164 centrifuges, a significant step toward the large-scale production of enriched uranium required for either fuelling nuclear reactors or making nuclear bombs.
Meanwhile, the head of Iran's Revolutionary Guards yesterday warned the US not to attack the Islamic republic, saying that American troops in Iraq and the region were vulnerable.
General Yahya Rahim Safavi, one of Teheran's most powerful figures, said of the US: "You can start a war but it won't be you who finishes it.
"The Iranian armed forces are totally ready to defend the country. If the Americans attack Iran, they will be making a second strategic error after their attack against Iraq."
Speaking at the pro-Palestinian conference in Teheran, the general warned: "The Americans know better than anyone that their troops in the region and in Iraq are vulnerable. I would advise them not to commit such a strategic error."
just because i dont agree with you doesnt mean i dont understand what the fuck we're talking about, I would think an intelligent person who writes as eloquently as yourself would realize that people have different opinions other than your own so you dont have to be so god damn condescending. Nevertheless, I dont paricularly like to argue evidence and historic fact with Idealogues, and thats apparently what you are. I like to look at everything in life from different angles, neither left or right.
My angle isn't one of "left or right". It is one of observation as it relates to the fact and actuality. Do I understand opinions differ? Yes. Can opinions be formed upon false pretexts, with a holding to a predilection? Yes. Are these opinions often incorrect? To quite a damn degree. This other article of yours merely suggests that he supports an extreme Palestinian uprising. Seriously, do you honestly think this man would risk the destruction of his country? He is a smart man in quite a few ways, although, as I said, can be quite irrational given the circumstance.
do you honestly trust Iran with nuclear technology, knowing that one day down the line they will have the ability to elevate it to weapons level? if iran had nuclear weapons, would you feel better about world peace? and yes I honetsly dont think this guy gives a fuck about his people, hes destroying his country economically by promoting the continuos enrichment of uraniam, knowing that sacntions wont be far behind. when the iranian gov't threatens to disrupt the flow of oil in the middle east in case sanctions do occur, well that would hurt iran more than it would the rest of the world. he may be a doctor and he may have some form of high mental ability or whatever, but anyone who disputes the holocaust needs a mallet to the head to get some sense knocked into em.Xietsu wrote:
My angle isn't one of "left or right". It is one of observation as it relates to the fact and actuality. Do I understand opinions differ? Yes. Can opinions be formed upon false pretexts, with a holding to a predilection? Yes. Are these opinions often incorrect? To quite a damn degree. This other article of yours merely suggests that he supports an extreme Palestinian uprising. Seriously, do you honestly think this man would risk the destruction of his country? He is a smart man in quite a few ways, although, as I said, can be quite irrational given the circumstance.
Dude, he has never, within all terms of a literal frame, denied the Holocaust. As I said, he is just a bit irrational in that he may be alluding to the proposition that Israel be relocated to regions within Europe.
With relevance to their having nuclear power, it is as I said earlier -- they should be alotted the capability, but under extreme monitoring. Fact is, they're more than likely to accept this newly introduced package. What fear is there to have as long as checks and balances remain in working order?
With relevance to their having nuclear power, it is as I said earlier -- they should be alotted the capability, but under extreme monitoring. Fact is, they're more than likely to accept this newly introduced package. What fear is there to have as long as checks and balances remain in working order?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/20 … 531177.htm
Iranian President denies Holocaust
Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has said that the Holocaust was a "myth", reiterating a view that has caused international uproar and drawn a rebuke from the United Nations Security Council.
Last week he suggested that the killing of six million Jews by the Nazis was a legend.
"They have fabricated a legend under the name 'Massacre of the Jews', and they hold it higher than God himself, religion itself and the prophets themselves," he told a crowd in the south-eastern city of Zahedan on Wednesday.
The speech was broadcast live on state television.
The President, a former Revolutionary Guardsman who was elected in June, in October called Israel a "tumour" which must be "wiped off the map", provoking a diplomatic storm and stoking up fears about Iran's atomic ambitions.
The United States accuses Iran of seeking nuclear weapons.
Iran denies any atomic arms ambitions.
European diplomats say his Holocaust comments make it harder for them to negotiate directly with Iran over the country's nuclear program.
"The comments are wholly unacceptable and we condemn them unreservedly. They have no place in civilised political debate," said Britain's Minister for Europe, Douglas Alexander, whose country currently holds the EU presidency.
Israel's Foreign Ministry says his comments show Iran's "rogue regime" was acting outside acceptable international norms.
"The combination of extremist ideology, a warped understanding of reality and nuclear weapons is a combination that no-one in the international community can accept," said spokesman Mark Regev.
Mr Ahmadinejad accused the Israeli Government and its allies of hypocrisy and reiterated his view that Israel should be moved from "dear Palestine" to Europe, America or Canada.
"If your civilisation consists of unjust acts, oppression and poverty for the majority of the globe to provide your own people welfare, then we shout at the top of our voices that we hate your frail civilisation," he said.
This was greeted by rapturous cries of "God is the Greatest" from the crowd.
"They have fabricated a legend under the name 'Massacre of the Jews', and they hold it higher than God himself, religion itself and the prophets themselves," he told a crowd in the south-eastern city of Zahedan on Wednesday
that seems like a pretty literal way of saying the holocaust never occured
Iranian President denies Holocaust
Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has said that the Holocaust was a "myth", reiterating a view that has caused international uproar and drawn a rebuke from the United Nations Security Council.
Last week he suggested that the killing of six million Jews by the Nazis was a legend.
"They have fabricated a legend under the name 'Massacre of the Jews', and they hold it higher than God himself, religion itself and the prophets themselves," he told a crowd in the south-eastern city of Zahedan on Wednesday.
The speech was broadcast live on state television.
The President, a former Revolutionary Guardsman who was elected in June, in October called Israel a "tumour" which must be "wiped off the map", provoking a diplomatic storm and stoking up fears about Iran's atomic ambitions.
The United States accuses Iran of seeking nuclear weapons.
Iran denies any atomic arms ambitions.
European diplomats say his Holocaust comments make it harder for them to negotiate directly with Iran over the country's nuclear program.
"The comments are wholly unacceptable and we condemn them unreservedly. They have no place in civilised political debate," said Britain's Minister for Europe, Douglas Alexander, whose country currently holds the EU presidency.
Israel's Foreign Ministry says his comments show Iran's "rogue regime" was acting outside acceptable international norms.
"The combination of extremist ideology, a warped understanding of reality and nuclear weapons is a combination that no-one in the international community can accept," said spokesman Mark Regev.
Mr Ahmadinejad accused the Israeli Government and its allies of hypocrisy and reiterated his view that Israel should be moved from "dear Palestine" to Europe, America or Canada.
"If your civilisation consists of unjust acts, oppression and poverty for the majority of the globe to provide your own people welfare, then we shout at the top of our voices that we hate your frail civilisation," he said.
This was greeted by rapturous cries of "God is the Greatest" from the crowd.
"They have fabricated a legend under the name 'Massacre of the Jews', and they hold it higher than God himself, religion itself and the prophets themselves," he told a crowd in the south-eastern city of Zahedan on Wednesday
that seems like a pretty literal way of saying the holocaust never occured
Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2006-06-07 17:48:54)
What the fuck man? Do you not understand the warping that such purveyors insert throughout their articles? Even if subconciously, these fucks are stupid. They're making a story, and emphasizing the most radical. As I noted earlier, read the interview provided by another here. Even still, with all of the reasoning I've displayed for you in plain sight, you still fall for this propagandistic bullshit. Come the fuck on.
I got more of an interest with Iran than the average joe, being that whatever happens there may or may not directly affect me. I do my homework.
check this Iranian state news agency
http://www.irna.ir/en/frontpage/menu-232/
check this Iranian state news agency
http://www.irna.ir/en/frontpage/menu-232/
"They have fabricated a legend under the name 'Massacre of the Jews', and they hold it higher than God himself, religion itself and the prophets themselves,"
thats a direct quote, why are you so adament in defending iran. see man see. Idealogues........
thats a direct quote, why are you so adament in defending iran. see man see. Idealogues........
Who the fuck cares about this news agency? What are you trying to say to me? If you don't understand the breakdown I have given of his analysis and proposed resolve, just fucking sad. I have been so fucking explicit in my description. For the sake of christ, my fellow human...--_--'...hahaha
Last edited by Xietsu (2006-06-07 17:54:44)
People thought they were being funny. What else?GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
how the hell did nukes get the most votes?
LOL, everytime i give a rebuttal you go on about the media. thats a direct quote straight from the horses mouth yo. This is why i dont fucking argue with idealogues, despite the evidence that is presented to them contrary to what they believe, they still go on and on about their opinions as if they were never disputed. Now im starting to realize why your defending Mahmoud Ahmadinejad , you sound just like him when he tries to dispell the holocaust "myth" HA!Xietsu wrote:
Who the fuck cares about this news agency? What are you trying to say to me?
and uh, i got nothing else to say to you, next......
Come on...who says "Thusly?"Xietsu wrote:
Thusly.
No, if they don't use their own oil to heat their dung huts they reap more profit in the long run.
The U.N. should allow them nuclear power but vow their destruction should they ever use nuclear weapons.
The U.N. should allow them nuclear power but vow their destruction should they ever use nuclear weapons.
You completely ignore the construct of rationality I display in response to your pathetic rebuttals each and every time. If you wish to call me an ideologue, you must be in opposition to the stance for that of the realist, perceptive, logical group. Do you have a problem with being wrong? Hey, you want to actually provide actual examination of the facts, so be it, but to claim that the particular news reports are evidence for upholding your opinion is to just fall prey to worthless propaganda. If you truly want to emphatically deny the facts I have presented, I can provide you with little else than the label of "fool".
(P.S. ^ /yes)
(P.S.S. lmao. So many karma givers are such imbecilic sacks of crap . They act with such myopia, presumption, and all-out ignorance. Shame shame on you little bastards! .)
I first said thusly when I was like...12. So like...Xietsu FTW?pfc_toecutter wrote:
Come on...who says "Thusly?"Xietsu wrote:
Thusly.
(P.S. ^ /yes)
(P.S.S. lmao. So many karma givers are such imbecilic sacks of crap . They act with such myopia, presumption, and all-out ignorance. Shame shame on you little bastards! .)
Last edited by Xietsu (2006-06-07 18:07:31)