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2006-05-25 16:02:46
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,978|6860|949

lowing wrote:

Belx wrote:

At least Clinton did not invade a country with faulty evidence.
Whew..........thats good, cuz neither did Bush........Unless Iraq really WAS complying with the UN sanctions that brought peace for the first gulf war.
Lowing, you constantly slander the UN, but then when it suits your fancy, you back it.  Agreed Iraq didn't comply with UN sanction agreements.  However, never did I hear that reasoning used for going to war.  You want to know why?  Because the US acted outside of the UN.  GWB tried to offer the same evidence to the UN that he offered the American public, but the UN did not agree with the evidence provided by the US Government.  The American public (Congress), still seething about 9/11 and hopped up on unfounded fear, decided that we should go to war.  Keep offering arguments like "Iraq wasn't complying with UN sanctions" and "He was a brutal dictator".  Those are valid arguments against Saddam's regime, just not the ones Bush used to promote his preemptive war.


EDIT: Here we go again, straying off topic into the abyss that is the debate and serious forum here on BF2s.com

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2006-05-25 16:05:40)

2006-05-25 16:02:52
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6880|USA

Bubbalo wrote:

Yes........because it's no like there are books that record facts and figures or anything.  Wouldn't it be wonderful if that were the case.  Every time we wondered about the long ago we could check these books.  We'd call them "history books", and all would be well with the world.  Oh, the possibilities.
Or you could always look up the info on your Mom's computer.
2006-05-25 16:05:02
ATC
Member
+58|6973|...
I hate Clinton. I like Bush ALOT. I think he is handling things fine. That is my opinion and you can't change it. Don't even try.
2006-05-25 16:07:33
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6880|USA

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

lowing wrote:

Belx wrote:

At least Clinton did not invade a country with faulty evidence.
Whew..........thats good, cuz neither did Bush........Unless Iraq really WAS complying with the UN sanctions that brought peace for the first gulf war.
Lowing, you constantly slander the UN, but then when it suits your fancy, you back it.  Agreed Iraq didn't comply with UN sanction agreements.  However, never did I hear that reasoning used for going to war.  You want to know why?  Because the US acted outside of the UN.  GWB tried to offer the same evidence to the UN that he offered the American public, but the UN did not agree with the evidence provided by the US Government.  The American public (Congress), still seething about 9/11 and hopped up on unfounded fear, decided that we should go to war.  Keep offering arguments like "Iraq wasn't complying with UN sanctions" and "He was a brutal dictator".  Those are valid arguments against Saddam's regime, just not the ones Bush used to promote his preemptive war.
No I don't like the UN and me saying that they took an action or didn't take an action has nothing to do with how I feel about the organization.

The UN spent a decade issuing resolution after resolution, tough talk after tough talk threat after threat  to Iraq and still they didn't comply.....The US didn't act on behalh of the UN. The US acted on behalf of its citizens and their security as well as that of our allies. Also, you seem to always forget the US didn't go in alone. It was not some mad crazy man running amuk in this world.
2006-05-25 16:13:27
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,978|6860|949

I am a US citizen, and not once did Saddam or Iraq threaten my security.  On the behalf of some citizens, yes (mainly the ones that stood to profit economically).  The only ally of the US that was threatened was Israel, and there is nothing realistically the US Government can do in the Middle East region to stop Muslims from hating Israeli jews.  I wonder how the new Iraqi Government feels about Israel?  You think Israel still feels threatened?  Yes, a lot of good that war is doing for our allies.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2006-05-25 16:15:04)

2006-05-25 16:17:33
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6880|USA

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I am a US citizen, and not once did Saddam or Iraq threaten my security.  On the behalf of some citizens, yes (mainly the ones that stood to profit economically).  The only ally of the US that was threatened was Israel, and there is nothing realistically the US Government can do in the Middle East region to stop Muslims from hating Israeli jews.  I wonder how the new Iraqi Government feels about Israel?  You think Israel still feels threatened?  Yes, a lot of good that war did for our allies.
Saddam is no different that Hitler was, only a smaller version. Him being in power, was a threat to the entire world when he was shutting out the UN inspectors from making sure he wasn't building long range missles that could carry WMD.. Sorry.

Also, like it or not it is US policy to support or friend Israel. That is a topic for another debate.
2006-05-25 16:20:53
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7066

Spearhead wrote:

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

The economy isn't something a president can improve or degrade on a whim. These things take time, like altering the speed of a freight train. Unfortunately, the public's generally narrow views of history tend to lend credit, good or bad, to the man in charge for current events.
Agreed in perspective. Clinton had the 10 year plan all set and ready and rolling. Guess who fucked that up?
Chuck Norris
clinton had the Reagan Tax plan, Untouched

The Reagan Economy ( under G.H. Bush ) felt a slight murmer when Defense industries had big cut backs.
Otherwise all was well.

The cold War Over and Won By Reagan, clinton had 1/3 of the previous budget to deal with,

Finally the largest burden on our Economy Since 1940, the heavy Military and Defense spending could ease.

clinton however Decimated the Military and the Intelligence community with drastic cuts. This in hind sight proved a disaster.

The response to terror attacks was weak and went largely unnoticed by the intended targets.

The current War is eating into our economy. So be it.
Win the War that could have been easily prevented with a viable and effective response to multiple attacks on our Country starting with killings of US agents in Pakistan on  Jan. 23-1992 and Peaked with TC 09-11-01.

Last edited by Horseman 77 (2006-05-25 16:24:33)

2006-05-25 16:28:33
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|6883|United States of America

Aslan_the_Creator wrote:

I hate Clinton. I like Bush ALOT. I think he is handling things fine. That is my opinion and you can't change it. Don't even try.
I like the Clintons a lot.  They have kept the Republicans in Power for over 8 years now.  It took the Clintons to give the Republicans the first Majority in the House and Senate in like 30 years.  Also they got Bush elected so the Republicans could have all three branches and name Supreme Court Justices.  Republicans owe a lot to the Clintons, and I will be sure to vote for Hillary in the primary.

Who knows, maybe if Hillary is elected the Republicans will actually start being conservative again and fix the economy.

BTW:  Bush is the worst President we have had in the past 20 years.  The republicans have the Senate, House and Bush as President and he still can't fix the Education system, instead he lets TED KENNEDY write some B.S. to please the Teacher Unions.  He has handled Iraq by totally squandering Americas financial security.  He mishandled protecting America and didn't listen to US Intellegence before 9-11, Never fixed the tax code, never privatized education, never secured our boarders, no tort reform, he created the largest welfare entitilement since Social Security, spent money bailing out the Airline industry for the umpteenth time (but didn't fix the cause of the problem with the industry) and didn't even try to enact many things the Republicans ran on. 

Bush sucks and that will be his legacy.

I support the war on terror (just not how it is being waged). I am conservative (unlike Republicans in power today).
2006-05-25 16:31:38
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7066

Major_Spittle wrote:

Aslan_the_Creator wrote:

I hate Clinton. I like Bush ALOT. I think he is handling things fine. That is my opinion and you can't change it. Don't even try.
I like the Clintons a lot.  They have kept the Republicans in Power for over 8 years now.  It took the Clintons to give the Republicans the first Majority in the House and Senate in like 30 years.  Also they got Bush elected so the Republicans could have all three branches and name Supreme Court Justices.  Republicans owe a lot to the Clintons, and I will be sure to vote for Hillary in the primary.

Who knows, maybe if Hillary is elected the Republicans will actually start being conservative again and fix the economy.

BTW:  Bush is the worst President we have had in the past 20 years.  The republicans have the Senate, House and Bush as President and he still can't fix the Education system, instead he lets TED KENNEDY write some B.S. to please the Teacher Unions.  He has handled Iraq by totally squandering Americas financial security.  He mishandled protecting America and didn't listen to US Intellegence before 9-11, Never fixed the tax code, never privatized education, never secured our boarders, no tort reform, he created the largest welfare entitilement since Social Security, spent money bailing out the Airline industry for the umpteenth time (but didn't fix the cause of the problem with the industry) and didn't even try to enact many things the Republicans ran on. 

Bush sucks and that will be his legacy.

I support the war on terror (just not how it is being waged). I am conservative (unlike Republicans in power today).
anyone else spot the fruad in this post ?
2006-05-25 16:35:48
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|7000|PNW

You know, maybe if a third party would get their act together, they'd actually get elected. Otherwise, I'm not going to waste the vote.
2006-05-25 16:42:47
(T)eflon(S)hadow
R.I.P. Neda
+456|7058|Grapevine, TX

<{SoE}>Agamemnar wrote:

When Clinton was running your country, you were in the black ink.

Now you have a 477 billion dollar federal deficit. Good job Bush... good job.
I really don't want to go down this path, but I am...Agamemnar, nothing personal, but you really don't have a clue  what you are talking about, on so many levels. Our debt is more than 8 Trillion US Dollars. Pres. Clinton never ran this country. We still had a national Debt during his term.

When I say OUR, I mean the citizens of the US. So please enjoy the freedoms you have in Canada, and please try to make a point on the current topic.

I will agree with you on one thing, our Federal debt is a lot and growing each second. I believe we will work it out, so our children, and their children, will not be left with our debts.

EDIT: To clarify OUR US NAtional Debt has risen 6% from 2000 to 2005. Source...Office of Management and Budget,2006.

Last edited by (T)eflon(S)hadow (2006-05-25 16:54:11)

2006-05-25 16:46:02
(T)eflon(S)hadow
R.I.P. Neda
+456|7058|Grapevine, TX

Horseman 77 wrote:

anyone else spot the fruad in this post ?
Good eye, good eye. Maybe not a fraud, but definitely left of Saturn's many moons. lol
2006-05-26 06:32:01
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6964|California

Bubbalo wrote:

Erkut.hv wrote:

Way to dumb down this debate. You thump your chest when you type?
And you never say that to Horseman or Gunslinger why?  Oh, that's right, they're on your side.  My mistake.
No matter how much you disagree with their points, at least they come up with some.

That asshat just said "F this and that guys a chimp". No argument as to why.
2006-05-26 14:15:33
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7066
I have met both bill clinton and hillary in person ( like .3 secs each ) bill clinton is very handsom ( like the Marlboro Man ) but in an effort to always make him look Heroic they photograph him from low angles, which dosen't work well for him.. hillary while not really hot looking looks a lot nicer in person. You get a sense that politics has really worn her down. I bet given the chance, she wouldn't do it over. bill would, he seems to live for it.
2006-05-26 15:08:39
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6880|USA

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I am a US citizen, and not once did Saddam or Iraq threaten my security.  On the behalf of some citizens, yes (mainly the ones that stood to profit economically).  The only ally of the US that was threatened was Israel, and there is nothing realistically the US Government can do in the Middle East region to stop Muslims from hating Israeli jews.  I wonder how the new Iraqi Government feels about Israel?  You think Israel still feels threatened?  Yes, a lot of good that war is doing for our allies.
Based on this you could also say,.........not once did Al Queda threaten MY security unless of course you were in the WTC on 911.
2006-05-27 09:15:27
HM1{N}
Member
+86|6873|East Coast via Los Angeles, CA

Naughty_Om wrote:

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

Darth_Fleder wrote:


No, he invaded an intern and commited perjury in a court of law about it.
Blowjobs and Adulty ARE NOT AGAINST THE LAW!!! He should have never been in court.

Thats called a witch hunt.
he was in court for lying under oath...but the american people didnt care. so they didnt impeach him.
Actually, the American people DID care, it was the Democratic controlled congress that didn't care and let him go...
2006-05-28 18:13:37
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,978|6860|949

lowing wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I am a US citizen, and not once did Saddam or Iraq threaten my security.  On the behalf of some citizens, yes (mainly the ones that stood to profit economically).  The only ally of the US that was threatened was Israel, and there is nothing realistically the US Government can do in the Middle East region to stop Muslims from hating Israeli jews.  I wonder how the new Iraqi Government feels about Israel?  You think Israel still feels threatened?  Yes, a lot of good that war is doing for our allies.
Based on this you could also say,.........not once did Al Queda threaten MY security unless of course you were in the WTC on 911.
Except it is proven that Al Qaeda was in no way supported by Iraq.  And Al Qaeda did do something, unlike Saddam.  So no, you couldn't say that.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2006-05-28 19:03:27)

2006-05-28 20:04:40
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|6875

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

Darth_Fleder wrote:

Belx wrote:

At least Clinton did not invade a country with faulty evidence.
No, he invaded an intern and commited perjury in a court of law about it.
Blowjobs and Adulty ARE NOT AGAINST THE LAW!!! He should have never been in court.

Thats called a witch hunt.
Um... I think it is against the law. Marriage is a legal contract.

But more importantly you need to take a class in ethics.
2006-05-29 05:07:17
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|6891|USA

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

Darth_Fleder wrote:


No, he invaded an intern and commited perjury in a court of law about it.
Blowjobs and Adulty ARE NOT AGAINST THE LAW!!! He should have never been in court.

Thats called a witch hunt.
Um... I think it is against the law. Marriage is a legal contract.

But more importantly you need to take a class in ethics.
Damn I thought I was done with this thread. No class in ethics needed.

So "you THINK it is against the law". Stop thinking. You'll hurt yourself and everyone around you. Let me check.....nope....no laws against adultry or blowjobs. May be etched in stone on the 10 Commandments. But in todays court of law it is not illegal. A woman can divorce over it yes....her CHOICE. Imagine a woman has a choice. Now...don't ever challenge me on law again. YOU WILL LOSE.
2006-05-29 05:11:24
DonFck
Hibernator
+3,227|6860|Finland

If I were the President of the United States of America, I'd rather have my cock sucked by an intern than attack a country halfway around the globe without a 100% legitimate reason.. My 2 cents..

Dammit.. Again I posted this kind of poo in Debate and Serious Talk... When will I learn?
My sincere apologies..

Last edited by DonFck (2006-05-29 05:12:33)

I need around tree fiddy.
2006-05-29 05:30:08
Xietsu
Banned
+50|6785
I think the error in the procession of this President is that the war in Iraq had citations for entrance made within jumbled contexts of retaliation (for 9/11) and national defense, when really it was just a multitude of reasons not really affecting the public. To me, it honestly feels as though they've given Iran more time than they did Iraq, let alone the fact that intelligence reports said that Iraq may have WMDs (i.e. [b]assurity was not in place).
2006-05-29 09:16:46
<[onex]>Headstone
Member
+102|6930|New York
For those Commenting on the economy, Its the best its been since the early 90's. Stock market is hitting Record highs and they expect it to keep going up. Higher than EVER before. So You tell me why?

Do some research before speaking. Deficits and a good economy are two different things.

I expect Neg karma fron the ignorant, so Bring it on.

IF only these Kids would apply as much time to bettering things as they do playing BF2 maybe they could speak about things knowing they can change the situation. Until you get off your asses and do something about it, im afraid you will just have to deal with it.
2006-05-29 14:04:42
DonFck
Hibernator
+3,227|6860|Finland

<[onex]>Headstone wrote:

For those Commenting on the economy, Its the best its been since the early 90's. Stock market is hitting Record highs and they expect it to keep going up. Higher than EVER before. So You tell me why?
The following text is my opinion. Other opinions exist, and only time will tell what will happen, as the majority of us posting these forums are hardly in any situation to participate directly in the final outcome. This being said, it is of my opinion that:

The current stock market situation hardly reflects the grounds on what the current inflation is based on. Loans. Everyones. Peoples, companies and especially the state. This "false" inflation will lead to what happened in the late 80's. This time however, the global consequenses will be greater. It also seems that Europe has been guilty of the same mistake, although not always on a country-level, but company-level nonetheless. We have not learned, we will not learn. the bubble will burst eventually for all of us. Because what has happened after these record highs in the past?

The whole market economy as a system is considered a working one, but it has been evolving to its current form only since the industrial revolution, which might seem as a long time, but is actually a too short of a time period for any system to be perfected. Nor can constant inflation ever exist with the current system no matter how well it is refined.

You'll see no negative karma from this direction, which you mentioned could happen. It is, after all, the debate and serious talk section.

Edit: Added introduction + edited typos (which still are there..)

Last edited by DonFck (2006-05-29 14:12:14)

I need around tree fiddy.
2006-05-29 14:51:30
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|6883|United States of America

Horseman 77 wrote:

Major_Spittle wrote:

Aslan_the_Creator wrote:

I hate Clinton. I like Bush ALOT. I think he is handling things fine. That is my opinion and you can't change it. Don't even try.
I like the Clintons a lot.  They have kept the Republicans in Power for over 8 years now.  It took the Clintons to give the Republicans the first Majority in the House and Senate in like 30 years.  Also they got Bush elected so the Republicans could have all three branches and name Supreme Court Justices.  Republicans owe a lot to the Clintons, and I will be sure to vote for Hillary in the primary.

Who knows, maybe if Hillary is elected the Republicans will actually start being conservative again and fix the economy.

BTW:  Bush is the worst President we have had in the past 20 years.  The republicans have the Senate, House and Bush as President and he still can't fix the Education system, instead he lets TED KENNEDY write some B.S. to please the Teacher Unions.  He has handled Iraq by totally squandering Americas financial security.  He mishandled protecting America and didn't listen to US Intellegence before 9-11, Never fixed the tax code, never privatized education, never secured our boarders, no tort reform, he created the largest welfare entitilement since Social Security, spent money bailing out the Airline industry for the umpteenth time (but didn't fix the cause of the problem with the industry) and didn't even try to enact many things the Republicans ran on. 

Bush sucks and that will be his legacy.

I support the war on terror (just not how it is being waged). I am conservative (unlike Republicans in power today).
anyone else spot the fruad in this post ?
WTF are you talking about???? If it is because I was glad the Clintons put the Dems out of power but still think Bush is the worst president in 20 years, that is because Bush COULD actually reform things with the Republicans in the Senate and Congress.  Regan, Bush 1 couldn't have done shit and of course Clinton was a Dem who couldn't do shit (thank God) because of all the Republicans that were elected because of him.  I am Conservative, not Republican.  Republicans are just the less liberal of the two parties so I would rather have them in power.

Democrats are Socialists anymore, I will never vote for a Socialist party.  Of course Voting in primaries doesn't count;)

 

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