BF2S Forums How Do Americans Perceive Themselves on the World Stage?

Born and bred here, this is what I get from living here:

I think most of us as a whole value our patriotism, families and God above all else.  As on the worldstage, I think we feel we are on top of things and mostly untouchable.  Even though the average citizen probably couldn't tell you what those "things" are.  We like our freedom and take it for granted.  We don't understand other countries very well that don't have the same freedoms we do.  As the worldstage goes, we feel we are the leaders setting the examples for the world to follow.  I think the general consensus is, if everyone was like us, the world would be a better place. 

Do I agree with all the opinions above?

Not entirely.  I do believe in God, family and country.  I do believe we as a nation have the best intentions in all we are involved in with the worldstage.  We know we are not untouchable after 9-11.  I seriously doubt another attack like that will happen again.  I rarely watch the news because it seems to focus on everything negative in the world.  This is my own fault for not really knowing the state of things globally and I take responsibility for not "really" knowing what's going on out there.  But of those of us who do watch news, do they "really" know what's going on?  I don't know.  I don't agree with the way a lot of news is presented to us...biased, I think.  The biggest freedom here is opinions and everyone's got one.  So would the world be better if everyone was like us?  Don't know, maybe...we have our problems but they seem minute compared to the huge conflicts going on elsewhere.  No one is perfect, least of all me.  But one thing is sure, I'm proud to be an American and love what we stand for. 

I am CMDR_Dave and I approve this message.

i love the USA, ill defend and give my life for it in a snap when needed

but i think the USA is a respectable country with respectable people...and i believe Americans think the same way towards people in England, Germany, France, and other countries

The US is not untouchable, look at how they delt with the hurricanes, now if 500,000 trops ran on to US soil, then TBH i think they would have a REAL hard time keeping them back, and they wont be able to hold them back.

This is just what i think, and I hope we never find out.

I should clarify my original question (and the title of the thread).

Socio-cultural-economic role was in my thoughts when I first posted the question. I think the psyche of the American nation changed a lot since 9/11, imho. I walked the streets of NYC a number of times, and each time a jetliner passed by overhead, some heads to look up, no longer taking things for granted. I even found myself doing it. When i pass through Immigration, no longer does it feel the same anymore. We are subjected to profiling (even though I am a Chinese), not-so-random baggage search at the airport (as long as there are two pasenggers travelling together, computer randomly picks them), and passports blacklisted. I travel a lot to the US, both pre and post 9/11 and I am conscious of the difference in the nation's psyche.

I guess the real question was whether the aura of invincibility still exists in the American mindset. For some of us Asians, we see America as the land of plenty and opportunity, and the land of righteousness who would come to the rescue of countries in trouble (whether in the form of economic or military aid). For those of us whose parents survived World War 2, we hear enough stories about how Allied lives were lost during the War in trying to liberate the Asian nations. A lot of us are grateful for that as the price of freedom was paid for in blood. And the US continues to be a major economic influence here in this region.

I remembered what i did during 9/11, and the image of the World Trade Centre collapsing after the attacks remain vivid to me to this day. I felt for the lives lost, and I felt for Americans. And the thought that came to me that day was things will never be the same in the US anymore. Sadly, I know of people who think that this is a wakeup call for Americans because they perceive (not me and the majority of us here, i should make myself very clear here) Americans to be arrogant and cocky in their dealings with the rest of the world. These same people fail to realise that without the American economic influence, there will be no wealth to be found in this region.

This is a long post. I'm sorry for its length but its necessary to make my points.

I feel that despite the technology and the means in which this world is now joined through information and communication, that the USA is still an isolationistic country. Not in the terms of global politics but in the terms of society, psychology and ideology. For the rest of this post when I refer to the American public I speak for a slight majority of the grand population of the USA and not entirety of the country.

The American public does not care what happens elsewhere in the world. If American troops are not actively engaged in a conflict elsewhere then the American public does not see what is going on. Some of this is due to the news media which is incredible bias and is very short sighted and the rest is due to lack of culture and world eduction.

The news does not cover many events that happen daily simply because they do not deem them important in the light of the American public or they do not believe that the American public should be bothered by it. Unfortunately the media is not doing its job and is now being run with the mindset and opinions of those in the controlling aspects of these corporations. Do not forget that the news media is on networks that are controlled by corporate entities and that these entities do in fact have their own agendas. Privately or publicly they back certain political agendas which they feel further their cause or push the opinion of the public in their favor. For years now the Fox News Network has been labeled as nothing more than a Republican propaganda machine who has no interest in reporting the news as so much as they are going to report only the news that they want to report. I very rarely see anything go across FOX that would damage the Republican party and yet there is quite a bit against the other parties. Obvious slander and bias reporting is so prevalent that the network doesn't seem to even care about hiding it anymore. The only other major news network, outside the normal three ABC, NBC and CBS, is CNN. I have watched CNN very actively in the last year or two comparing it to FOX in many aspects and I find that even though it is usually more balanced in its reporting it also has its own agenda. This becomes even more obvious when I watch the BBC and learn about all the news that wasn't reported on in the US.

In the realm of education this country is failing miserably. For the richest nation in the world are education system is perhaps one of the worst in terms of quality of education. The recent “Nobody left behind” political platform of the current presidency is a joke in its own right and does nothing but present the facade that our education system is churning out quality graduates. It is nothing more than training and studying for standardized tests and does not actually teach real knowledge. Everyone is simply attempting to get past these tests and the schools are attempting to meet their quotas so they can keep their funding. These standardized tests are created by the government and hence ask certain types of questions in certain fields. They do not expand upon them and they do not in anyway leave room for discussion. Teachers must follow a strict curriculum that does not promote freedom of thought or tangent discussions. Even worse is most curriculum that would expose children and student to worldly history, knowledge of other cultures and societies are being removed. It is getting to a time where these subjects will only be taught in college and only if the student chooses to take them. It is by far this absolute lack of understanding of world cultures that leads to the arrogance and the myopic attitude of the US Citizen.

The USA does not care about the world. They only care about their own interests. The American public does not care about the rest of the world. They only care about their own interests. And even if they did care they wouldn't understand what is going on because of their lack of world and cultural education.

Ignorance is the motto of the USA. The Land of the Free and home of the Brave.  I am as patriotic as the next American but unlike most I actually give a damn about foreign relations and diplomacy. We are the king makers and we will forever be cleaning up our own messes.

Perhaps later I will start another topic about the American economy and its place in this world economy and why while we are number one its only in face value and that we are actually on a road to economic disaster.

Last edited by kilroy0097 (2005-10-01 22:16:10)

How do we view ourselves? It's too vauge a question to ask as previously mentioned. But if you ask me, one thing I do wish the world could see, is that our president does not in any way shape or form, represent every American. Just the ones who voted for him, whoever it may be.

The world media and the American media are all shit to begin with, and anyone who belives everything the media feeds them are just.. ugh, you can't even explain this kind of shit. Forget it.

Yes, that's something I'd love to hear. What do other countries think of us?

I'll post something on this topic over the weekend. I'm at work now, and I wouldn't be able to put it all together within the 15 minutes I have until I can get the hell out of here...

sorry didn´t  want to make a religious debatte out of this....
i just wanted to point out that the VERY religious people taken seriously in the US and in most other western or christian countries there just a marginal group.
I just don´t understand how somebody can prescribe teachers to lie to children...
Those people should really have a look in historybooks what happened in the first 500 years of the last millenium over here in europe

Last edited by oh-godzilla (2005-10-09 03:10:33)

Isolationism indeed comes in part from the location of the US in terms of continental positioning on the globe. This may have been more true in the pre WWII era when traveling off this landmass would have been more difficult and communication also difficult. However in this modern era the excuse of being separated via water is becoming less an excuse and a more viable reasoning would simply be lack of education of the world around you and also just not caring about other countries. As for our participation in WWII yes there is some measure of satisfaction from being the major power behind stopping the Nazi war machine while also stopping the Japanese war machine. However that little bandwagon should have ended by the end of the Cold War and certainly we shouldn't be holding it over any heads at this point. Currently if anything we should be thanking other countries for funding us considering the amount of money that is probably owed by the US right now. Our deficit is huge and we hardly should be funding a war across the planet at this point and yet here we are still doing it.

As to your other points I pretty much agree with you. We are a highly developed country that embraces science in so many aspects of life. We invent new things and discover new way of using the elements in our favor including scientific research with biological elements as well. However all this seems to be thrown aside simply due to the major influence of a few extremists who happen to be in power in the country and happen to be rather fanatical religious right wing conservatives.  The idea of "Intelligent Design" is a joke and is something that I can hardly believe any intelligent person couldn't see through. Placing a scientific facade over a core religious belief is not going to hide it and if anything insults the very principles that the religion is based upon. I could as easily argued that "Intelligent Design" is based upon an Alien high developed and intelligent species that came to earth millions of years ago and cultivated the then primitive lifeforms into the human species you see today. And let me write a ficitional books about it and call it a religion based upon science. Oh wait that's already been done it's called Scientology. You want to see some nuts there you go.

As for the Patriot Act this is something that though may be founded upon principles that are sound in the sense of espionage and national intelligence when used to find terrorists and criminals its also very much defeats the central foundation of this country which is freedom from oppression and freedom from a hierarchical government. It takes away any sort of freedom to speak to act and any sort of privacy.  Of course I can't pin everything on the Republicans on this issue because the Democrats are doing the same thing, all be it in a different way, by attempting to federalize everything. Taking away a state's right to govern itself is what the US Civil War was based upon and if that point is pushed too much you will have the possibility of another fracture. Perhaps not in a military sense but most definitely in a political one.

More than anything I want to say that the people of the US are good people and in truth just want to live like everyone else. Yes we have a higher standard of living and yes many things within the US are better than anywhere else in the world. But that standard is quickly becoming one of common place and is something we all take for granted. We have grown accustom to our lives of easy cheese and microwavable dinners and we forget the basic tenants of hard work and aspiration to something better. Countries like China, like India are striving towards a much brighter future and their goals lay past the US's current ones. I forsee China rivaling the US economy within a single decade the way they are going.

Meanwhile the US is stagnant. Attempting to keep what they have and not really improving as a government or a nation. We are the status quo and unfortunately we aren't helping raise that. Our complete failure as a nation to improve our school systems, to lower our usage of nonrecylable resources and our currently inablility to make long lasting relations with other countries will in the end destroy this nation. It creditability is already waning. Many have been saying these things for quite some time now but the issue is those words are not being heeded. To expect a government to change when they already hold all the cards in this political poker is not going to happen. It will take something rather drastic to happen before future and forward thinking revolutionaries are heard and taken seriously. And I do not speak of the political nuts on either the left or the right wings. I am talking about those in the middle, the moderates who really want to see the best for this country and do not put emphasis on liberal or conservative morals or religious outlooks but a nice road inbetween.

Those are my viewpoints. Thank you very much Sarum for taking an honest look at this thread and this debate. I welcome any commentary on these words.

Cheers.

imho, for the US to succeed in its role as the policeman of the world (being the solitary superpower), it needs to understand the cultural sensitivities of other nations. what works in the US is not necessarily true elsewhere. Take Freedom of Speech for instance. It is the right of every American citizen to possess the freedom of speech but you pay a price for it. Other countries value it less and sees restrictions as a means to balance the delicate socio-political equilibrium. Same goes for human rights issues. What seen as basic human rights in the US may not be perceived as being acceptable in this part of the world. As long as the average citizen gets his daily meal, roof over his head,  and basic needs satisfied, why does he care about human rights? The world view is very different.

for the US to truly succeed and provide leadership to the world, it really needs to understand cultural sensitivities across the various nations. It cant ride into the town on a blazing saddle and play high noon. It won't work, and if you try high noon with North Korea, for instance, the fallout will be beyond nuclear. God helps us all if that happens.


edit: Forgot to add.. Sarum, Kilroy, those posts of yours were fantastic!

Last edited by mikeshw (2005-10-11 23:47:29)

Stasiek wrote:

How Do Americans Perceive Themselves on the World Stage?

i can't speak for every american but i can speak for myself.  i support what america is doing militarily by having a presence in almost every part of the world.  we're here (and there) for a reason. don't ask me for THE reason...it's on a need to know basis and frankly you sir nor i don't need to know

Interesting but let me make a retort. Isn't it the responsibility of the citizen in a Democratic nation to know the decisions their leaders make and why? Aren't they representing the best interests of the people of their nation? And if so then they should know that their president is sending a Battalion or two to a foreign nation to wage war and they should know why they are doing it. And when the people find out that the president was lying on their reason then they should be able to demand to know the truth from their "elected" president.

I think this country has truely lost the concept of a Democratic nation.
And the current parties are just hurting us more, not helping us.