BF2S Forums Guantanamo Bay Abuse - Revealed at Last

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

lowing wrote:

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

Awww, dus the likkle baba no likey when da big bad euro wolves huff and puff wiv no milk and cooky tweet to make awl the bad men word hurty feel betta?  Tough shit, this discussion is about serious issues not back-pats and reacharounds.

Yup you are right so if you are going to have a "serious discussion" be completely factual about it and not jaded, 1 sided or bring half truths...

And besides that it will take more than a dope smoking, ex-convict to hurt my feelings. Sorry to hear that with your 152 IQ and all your great grades, you weren't smart enough NOT to go to jail.

I didn't go to jail.  Never more than a night in the cells at most.  I'm very open about this, and I've mentioned it in other threads, and unlike some people I don't ever feel the need to hide the truth or distort the facts.  We don't really care if people smoke weed here in UK, since I got convicted the law has changed and I would not even have got a caution under the new law.  It doesn't even affect my job prospects, as it counts as spent sentence and I don't have to declare it on forms.  And it shows the fallacy of the law in the first place that I could be convicted of a crime which is then declared not to be a crime a few years later.  Shame that American 'evil weed' paranoia has been left on the books to punish and alienate of significant proportion of the population for no reason.  I got a fine of less that £150 for every single offence.  And if you must know I don't even smoke anymore, with a kid on the way and everything.

You took things to the level of name calling in x amount of posts.  You repeatedly insulted me by calling me an idiot, then started whining that no-one is thanking America for all the good things they do, despite that you are in a thread labelled 'Guantanamo Bay Abuse - Revealed at Last'.  So excuse me for finally sinking to your level and implying you're a crybaby, but that doesn't mean I don't listen to everyone views and read any references that they post, before supplying a counter argument backed up with references. 

And of course pilots shouldn't be allowed to take drugs or fly drunk, that's common sense.  But as for everyone else, the figures speak for themselves.   

Prohibition doesn't work, every American should know that by now.  In fact, they breed some great weed out there in your country, in case you didn't know.

Hmmmmm, i was reading back........can't seem to find the post where i was "crying"..........If you are referring to my post that I think if you are going to talk about America, you might want to be alittle more objective about it. Maybe add alittle more than half truths to your little tales then I was hardly crying. Abuse in Gitmo!! Hmmmm abuse toward terrorist and people who fight for terrorist.........  I can live with that. Maybe next time Islamic terrorist may want to plan a vacation somewhere other than NYC Washington DC or Pennsylvania if they can't stand the murderous tortures of "not being able to see East" that the US imposes on them.....Gimme a break.....

One more question since you are a pacifist with a baby on the way.......and you denounce the death penalty absolutely.............Any chance you will change your mind if it was YOUR child that was tortured, raped and killed???......If your answer is no........let me know when you ARE a father and so I can ask you once again.

dubbs wrote:

herrr_smity wrote:

xanthpi wrote:

How wrong you are again. This is one of the rare occurences of my actually supplying a link.

http://solport.com/resources/Iraqi%20We … apshot.JPG

what about this then
http://www.thememoryhole.org/corp/iraq-suppliers.htm

The site you give here, stated that US companies, not the nation give support to Iraq.  The HNN site you gave did not directly say that the US gave chemical weapons to the US.  It stated that we suggested that they did not use chemical weapons.  I did not read the Washington Post link you posted because that article was dry and very borring.

1979 - Shah of Iran overthrown by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini denounces Iraq as a secular regime. Several border clashes follow.
1980 - Iraq invades and bombs Iran. Ten years of bloody fighting follow.
1982 to 1983 - US covertly funnels weapons to Iraq through Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Kuwait.
1983 - In December, President Reagan sends Donald Rumsfeld to Iraq who said “It struck us as useful to have a relationship, given that we were interested in solving the Mideast problems.” The US wanted Iraq as a counter to Iran. Iraq buys 60 Hughes helicopters.
3/24/1984 - - Rumsfeld returns for a visit with Tariq Aziz. On the same day UPI reports Iraq used Mustard gas mixed with nerve gas Tabun on Iranian soldiers. Declassified papers later reveal that US was aware of almost daily use of chemical weapons by Iraq.
1984 - Iraq buys 45 Bell helicopters. Full diplomatic relations between Iraq and US restored. CIA helps Iraq calibrate mustard gas attacks on Iranian soldiers.
1988 - Kurdish civilians killed by poisonous gas. Sweeping sanctions were unanimously passed by the US Senate that would have denied Iraq access to most US technology. The measure was killed by the Bush White House. Iraq buys anthrax, chemicals, and cluster bombs from US companies.
1990 - Iraq and Iran agree to a cease fire under UN Resolution 598.
1990 - Iraq accuses Kuwait of violating the Iraqi border, flooding the oil market, and pumping oil from its Rumaylah oil field.
7/25/1990 - Saddam Hussein meets with United States Ambassador April Glaspie who assures Saddam that the US would not get involved in this dispute.
8/2/1990 - Iraq invades Kuwait. US reverses itself condemns the invasion.
1/17/1991 - George Bush Sr. bombs Baghdad. Over the course of the six week war over 100,000 Iraqis are killed and Iraq is driven from Kuwait.
is this better then

Watch "The Road to Guantanamo" and see how you all feel about camp Xray then. the US army disgusts me.

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

and terrorist love to cut your head off and post it on the internet when they capture you....fuck em.  Dont get it twisted, you really have to be a hardcore terrorist to end up in gitmo, no innocent people there.

Youre out of line. FACT.

Horseman 77 wrote:

Look at every thread that trashes America, Marconius started 1/2 of them. If Bush really did have secret police you can bet they'd show up at his house.  I bet some pissed off ex Marines do anyway.

I trash the current administration running the country, and the people responsible for exploiting the freedoms of this country to enact their own agendas.  I do it because I'm allowed to do so, and because I strongly feel that the current administration is completely inept as to how to properly manage the US at the moment.

The point in this thread that I made a while back that still hasn't been dealt with is how people feel about the José Padilla situation.  Aside from the anti-Arabic sentiment here, I'd still like to know what Americans feel about our government stripping rights off of American citizens and throwing them into Gitmo with no charges and no proof to back up their accusations...

What the dumbshit American Government doesn't seem to understand is that AMERICA WENT TO WAR AGAINST IRAQ ILLEGALY!! ALSO, KIDNAPPING PEOPLE FROM THEIR CONSTIUENT COUNTRIES IS ILLEGAL AND UNJUST! DOES AMERICA EVEN REMEMBER THE FUCKING GENEVA CONVENTION?!?!?!?! FOR FUCKS SAKE. DON'T ANY OF YOU BITCH CUNTS SAY THAT THEY ARE TERRORISTS THEREFOR SHOULD BE IN CAMP XRAY, THEY ARN'T TERRORISTS, UNLESS THEY HAVE PARTICIPATED IN AN ACT OF TERRORISM - ONLY A HANDFULL OF PEOPLE TAKEN TO CAMP XRAY HAVE EVER EVEN BEEN CHARGED WITH TERRORISM CHARGES. ITS ALL FUCKED UP. WHAT THE FUCK MADE AMERICA DECIDE IT COULD GOVERN THE WORLD ANYWAY. "Oh, oh, no, They could nuclear bombification us, we must take actification upon these terrorismifiers" FOR FUCKS SAKE, THIS MAKES ME SO MAD. I'm even more mad at England for holding Americas hand in all this, but I won't go into that..

That's my piece, I'm not going to view this thread again, so fucking bitch at me all you want, call me and my government fcking lap dogs if you want. I've said what I wanted too, that's all I care about.

Marconius wrote:

Horseman 77 wrote:

Look at every thread that trashes America, Marconius started 1/2 of them. If Bush really did have secret police you can bet they'd show up at his house.  I bet some pissed off ex Marines do anyway.

I trash the current administration running the country, and the people responsible for exploiting the freedoms of this country to enact their own agendas.  I do it because I'm allowed to do so, and because I strongly feel that the current administration is completely inept as to how to properly manage the US at the moment.

The point in this thread that I made a while back that still hasn't been dealt with is how people feel about the José Padilla situation.  Aside from the anti-Arabic sentiment here, I'd still like to know what Americans feel about our government stripping rights off of American citizens and throwing them into Gitmo with no charges and no proof to back up their accusations...

I will field this for you Marconius,


The answer is simple..........Speak out all you want against American policy, even as an American.......This man was conspiring to blow up an American city with a "dirty  bomb" during a time of war. He is a traitor to his country and should be dealt with as such.....Attack America, Plot to attack America, conspire with the enemy to commit attacks on America all during a time of war??????...YOU lost your rights....DO NOT SEEK RIGHTS AND PROTECTION FROM THE VERY COUNTRY YOU INTEND TO DESTROY!!!........After reading verious threads from you on this forum I draw a very disturbing conclusion. and that is this.......


You are more concerned about the safty and rights of those that are bent on harming your countrymen than you are about the people who go into harms way to get these people before they get you or your family.....If you are so ungrateful or so disturbed by this move your ass to a country that you think you would feel better protected.

"Oh, oh, no, They could nuclear bombification us, we must take actification upon these terrorismifiers"  Could we stick to English or, at least, some proper language?  Stuff like that quote makes me angry.  It is so stupid, it hurts to read it.

Marconius, while I wish the government would charge Padilla, I would rather see him locked up than on the streets.  Have you considdered that the government probably has a lot of evidence against him, but is unwilling to make that information public?

Horseman 77 wrote:

lowing wrote:

Marconius wrote:

I trash the current administration running the country, and the people responsible for exploiting the freedoms of this country to enact their own agendas.  I do it because I'm allowed to do so, and because I strongly feel that the current administration is completely inept as to how to properly manage the US at the moment.

The point in this thread that I made a while back that still hasn't been dealt with is how people feel about the José Padilla situation.  Aside from the anti-Arabic sentiment here, I'd still like to know what Americans feel about our government stripping rights off of American citizens and throwing them into Gitmo with no charges and no proof to back up their accusations...

I will field this for you Marconius,


The answer is simple..........Speak out all you want against American policy, even as an American.......This man was conspiring to blow up an American city with a "dirty  bomb" during a time of war. He is a traitor to his country and should be dealt with as such.....Attack America, Plot to attack America, conspire with the enemy to commit attacks on America all during a time of war??????...YOU lost your rights....DO NOT SEEK RIGHTS AND PROTECTION FROM THE VERY COUNTRY YOU INTEND TO DESTROY!!!........After reading verious threads from you on this forum I draw a very disturbing conclusion. and that is this.......


You are more concerned about the safty and rights of those that are bent on harming your countrymen than you are about the people who go into harms way to get these people before they get you or your family.....If you are so ungrateful or so disturbed by this move your ass to a country that you think you would feel better protected.

Come on you knew I was kidding, I respect you ! I rarely agree with you But I respect you.

Uhhhh i am lost was your comment directed toward me or MArconius??

lowing wrote:

And since you love smoking dope and find nothing wrong with it,  why stop??.....How about you just roll one up with your kid so he/she can enjoy being stoned??You know...some bonding time with Dad.....Or.....is there something wrong with it after all??....Let me know, you seem to support both views.

I said I hardly smoked at all.  I wouldn't smoke tobacco, weed or anything else in a house with either a pregnant woman or a child.  Lot's of peoples parents smoke, but that doesn't mean they should allow their child to smoke.  Would you give your child alcohol?  No?  Then STFU.

EDIT:

lowing wrote:

I guess the point I am trying to make here is. Yes you could fill a book with everything America has done wrong. On the other hand you could fill a library with all she has done right.....How about a thread on that from some of you EU folks?

This was the post I refered to.  And I said that expecting people to reel off entire threads of things that America has done right in the world before putting forward their criticism when visiting a forum to discuss serious issues and problems, was, and is, infantile.


EDIT:

lowing wrote:

No America didn't go to war illegally.............Iraq was breaking UN sanctioned resolutions that ended the first gulf war........they were breaking these resolutions starting early on in the Clinton administration ( who didn't do anything about it).....Iraq was breaking the "treaty" and continued to do so. They had ample warnings (about 5 years worth) and would not comply with the resolutions. Add to it, they were confirmed to have ties to terrorist, so we went back in. Any of you care to dispute this???

Yes.  George Bush would care to dispute this.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/11/ … 4234.shtml

EDIT:

lowing wrote:

One more question since you are a pacifist with a baby on the way.......and you denounce the death penalty absolutely.............Any chance you will change your mind if it was YOUR child that was tortured, raped and killed???......If your answer is no........let me know when you ARE a father and so I can ask you once again.

I don't believe in the death penalty, even in this situation.  I understand the difference between justice and revenge. 

Google define:

Justice:

Justice is a concept involving the fair, moral, and impartial treatment of all persons, especially in law. It is often seen as the continued effort to do what is "right." In most of all cases what one regards as "right" is determined by consulting the majority, employing logic, or referring to divine authority, in the case of religion. If a person lives under a certain set law in a certain country, justice is considered making the person follow the law and be punished if not.

Revenge:

Revenge or vengeance consists of retaliation against a person or group in response to perceived wrongdoing. Although many aspects of revenge resemble or echo the concept of making things equal, revenge usually has a more injurious than constructive goal. The vengeful wish to make the other side go through what they went through or make sure they'll never be able to do what they did again.

EDIT:

lowing wrote:

You are more concerned about the safty and rights of those that are bent on harming your countrymen than you are about the people who go into harms way to get these people before they get you or your family.....If you are so ungrateful or so disturbed by this move your ass to a country that you think you would feel better protected.

I know you field this to Marconius, but I don't care, the fact remains: By saying that it's OK for America to treat it's prisoners however it wants, you are saying it's OK for the countries you invade to treat it's prisoners any way it wants.  Whether or not your enemy sticks to the internationally agreed rules of treating prisoners is irrelevant, you can't expect them to adhere to standards you don't believe in yourself.  I am (and Marconius probably is, but I don't speak for him) advocating the fair treatment of all prisoners, including US soldiers in Iraq, whether the wars or alleged crimes are justified or not.  Are you?

And don't tell people to move their asses out of America, that's like telling US supporters in Afghanistan to move their asses into America, when the reality is they would not be welcomed with open arms, they would most likely be rejected.  You can't just move to another country because you want to, you have to apply to immigrate, and many countries have tight immigration just like America.  Why don't you try and apply for permanent immigration to France or Holland and see what happens before quoting that tired, old, nonsensical "love it or leave it" bullshit?  It is arrogant to believe that Americans can live anywhere they want, while other people must go through immigration procedures (and often be rejected) before they can permanently move abroad.

EDIT:

lowing wrote:

Where are you unoriginalnuttah????? read up and answer my questions will ya??

Show a bit of patience please.  I'm married, have friends, work for 50+ hours a week, play and write games, and run a large web server.  The only reason that I have time to create long post's is because I type fast, and I can do my research on the downtime between tech support requests.  And hassling me to answer questions at 02:29:29 AM when I'm asleep (most nights) isn't going to make me answer them any faster.  I had time to answer one question last night, don't get jealous that I answered Marconius first, as he points out he had asked his question first anyway.

Last edited by UnOriginalNuttah (2006-03-24 03:40:23)

Marconius wrote:

lowing wrote:

Marconius wrote:

I trash the current administration running the country, and the people responsible for exploiting the freedoms of this country to enact their own agendas.  I do it because I'm allowed to do so, and because I strongly feel that the current administration is completely inept as to how to properly manage the US at the moment.

The point in this thread that I made a while back that still hasn't been dealt with is how people feel about the José Padilla situation.  Aside from the anti-Arabic sentiment here, I'd still like to know what Americans feel about our government stripping rights off of American citizens and throwing them into Gitmo with no charges and no proof to back up their accusations...

I will field this for you Marconius,


The answer is simple..........Speak out all you want against American policy, even as an American.......This man was conspiring to blow up an American city with a "dirty  bomb" during a time of war. He is a traitor to his country and should be dealt with as such.....Attack America, Plot to attack America, conspire with the enemy to commit attacks on America all during a time of war??????...YOU lost your rights....DO NOT SEEK RIGHTS AND PROTECTION FROM THE VERY COUNTRY YOU INTEND TO DESTROY!!!........After reading verious threads from you on this forum I draw a very disturbing conclusion. and that is this.......


You are more concerned about the safty and rights of those that are bent on harming your countrymen than you are about the people who go into harms way to get these people before they get you or your family.....If you are so ungrateful or so disturbed by this move your ass to a country that you think you would feel better protected.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.  There is no PROOF that he was going to attack Chicago with a Dirty bomb.  No proof whatsoever.  Padilla is a long-time criminal, yes, but the fact of the matter is that the Government came and threw him in Gitmo accusing him of such, and then the government kept CHANGING THEIR ACCUSATION when it turned out that they had NO EVIDENCE to prove him guilty/justify his unlawful detention.  Three years have passed, and the government still has not charged him with anything, plus his appeals to get out of the brig have constantly been denied.

The government is keeping this man unlawfully detained while they are trying to find evidence to back their accusations.  Even the most recent accusation of him being in an Afghanistan training camp is turning out to be completely bogus.  While the POWs at Gitmo are not U.S. Citizens, the case of Jose Padilla, who indeed IS a US Citizen despite his criminal record, shows how the government can indiscriminantly strip someone of their rights and toss them away and lose themselves in judicial bureaucracy while finding something to charge them with!

Marconius.....There is NO disputing the fact that he was communicating with terrorist in a cooperative manner, therefore a traitor.

secondly:.........He is a piece of shit gang banger who was out to make a name for himself....pardon me if I spare my tears for the victims of this violence and not the enemy.

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

lowing wrote:

And since you love smoking dope and find nothing wrong with it,  why stop??.....How about you just roll one up with your kid so he/she can enjoy being stoned??You know...some bonding time with Dad.....Or.....is there something wrong with it after all??....Let me know, you seem to support both views.

I said I hardly smoked at all.  I wouldn't smoke tobacco, weed or anything else in a house with either a pregnant woman or a child.  Lot's of peoples parents smoke, but that doesn't mean they should allow their child to smoke.  Would you give your child alcohol?  No?  Then STFU.

EDIT:

lowing wrote:

I guess the point I am trying to make here is. Yes you could fill a book with everything America has done wrong. On the other hand you could fill a library with all she has done right.....How about a thread on that from some of you EU folks?

This was the post I refered to.  And I said that expecting people to reel off entire threads of things that America has done right in the world before putting forward their criticism when visiting a forum to discuss serious issues and problems, was, and is, infantile.


EDIT:

lowing wrote:

No America didn't go to war illegally.............Iraq was breaking UN sanctioned resolutions that ended the first gulf war........they were breaking these resolutions starting early on in the Clinton administration ( who didn't do anything about it).....Iraq was breaking the "treaty" and continued to do so. They had ample warnings (about 5 years worth) and would not comply with the resolutions. Add to it, they were confirmed to have ties to terrorist, so we went back in. Any of you care to dispute this???

Yes.  George Bush would care to dispute this.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/11/ … 4234.shtml

EDIT:

lowing wrote:

One more question since you are a pacifist with a baby on the way.......and you denounce the death penalty absolutely.............Any chance you will change your mind if it was YOUR child that was tortured, raped and killed???......If your answer is no........let me know when you ARE a father and so I can ask you once again.

I don't believe in the death penalty, even in this situation.  I understand the difference between justice and revenge. 

Google define:

Justice:

Justice is a concept involving the fair, moral, and impartial treatment of all persons, especially in law. It is often seen as the continued effort to do what is "right." In most of all cases what one regards as "right" is determined by consulting the majority, employing logic, or referring to divine authority, in the case of religion. If a person lives under a certain set law in a certain country, justice is considered making the person follow the law and be punished if not.

Revenge:

Revenge or vengeance consists of retaliation against a person or group in response to perceived wrongdoing. Although many aspects of revenge resemble or echo the concept of making things equal, revenge usually has a more injurious than constructive goal. The vengeful wish to make the other side go through what they went through or make sure they'll never be able to do what they did again.

EDIT:

lowing wrote:

You are more concerned about the safty and rights of those that are bent on harming your countrymen than you are about the people who go into harms way to get these people before they get you or your family.....If you are so ungrateful or so disturbed by this move your ass to a country that you think you would feel better protected.

I know you field this to Marconius, but I don't care, the fact remains: By saying that it's OK for America to treat it's prisoners however it wants, you are saying it's OK for the countries you invade to treat it's prisoners any way it wants.  Whether or not your enemy sticks to the internationally agreed rules of treating prisoners is irrelevant, you can't expect them to adhere to standards you don't believe in yourself.  I am (and Marconius probably is, but I don't speak for him) advocating the fair treatment of all prisoners, including US soldiers in Iraq, whether the wars or alleged crimes are justified or not.  Are you?

And don't tell people to move their asses out of America, that's like telling US supporters in Afghanistan to move their asses into America, when the reality is they would not be welcomed with open arms, they would most likely be rejected.  You can't just move to another country because you want to, you have to apply to immigrate, and many countries have tight immigration just like America.  Why don't you try and apply for permanent immigration to France or Holland and see what happens before quoting that tired, old, nonsensical "love it or leave it" bullshit?  It is arrogant to believe that Americans can live anywhere they want, while other people must go through immigration procedures (and often be rejected) before they can permanently move abroad.

EDIT:

lowing wrote:

Where are you unoriginalnuttah????? read up and answer my questions will ya??

Show a bit of patience please.  I'm married, have friends, work for 50+ hours a week, play and write games, and run a large web server.  The only reason that I have time to create long post's is because I type fast, and I can do my research on the downtime between tech support requests.  And hassling me to answer questions at 02:29:29 AM when I'm asleep (most nights) isn't going to make me answer them any faster.  I had time to answer one question last night, don't get jealous that I answered Marconius first, as he points out he had asked his question first anyway.

Fair response, I will let the difference of opinion issues go without conceding a thing.

But as far as the "illegal" invasion of Iraq issue goes your attempt to debunk my statement didn't work......I said it was shown Iraq had ties to terrorism............I did not say they were involved in 911..sorry.......I also said we went back to Iraq because they were violating UN sanctioned resolutions that ended the first gulf war..........Your own article points out the fact that Iraq had ties to terror, so for doing my research, thanks...Now try and find me an article that backs up your rebuttle instead of prove my point......you can do this by finding an article that clearly shows Iraq was not breaking any UN sanctioned resolutions for several years before we went back.good luck

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

lowing wrote:

Marconius.....There is NO disputing the fact that he was communicating with terrorist in a cooperative manner, therefore a traitor.

secondly:.........He is a piece of shit gang banger who was out to make a name for himself....pardon me if I spare my tears for the victims of this violence and not the enemy.

By 'NO disputing' I assume you mean 'there is serious dispute.'

You have links to the KKK.  You are therefore a terrorist and a traitor.  Just because I said it, does that make it true?

Uhhh no it doesn't.............but the only dispute in question is how far WOULD he have gone with this plot.......Nobody in the know seems to be able to dispute his communication with the enemy.

Also yes being link to the KKK could be construed as a threat .......If the plot was to hang 100,000 black people, and you were found to be cooperating with the people (terrorist) who are planning such a thing......you are a traitor to America

Last edited by lowing (2006-03-24 05:00:03)

lowing wrote:

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

lowing wrote:

Marconius.....There is NO disputing the fact that he was communicating with terrorist in a cooperative manner, therefore a traitor.

secondly:.........He is a piece of shit gang banger who was out to make a name for himself....pardon me if I spare my tears for the victims of this violence and not the enemy.

By 'NO disputing' I assume you mean 'there is serious dispute.'

You have links to the KKK.  You are therefore a terrorist and a traitor.  Just because I said it, does that make it true?

Uhhh no it doesn't.............but the only dispute in question is how far WOULD he have gone with this plot.......Nobody in the know seems to be able to dispute his communication with the enemy.

Also yes being link to the KKK could be construed as a threat .......If the plot was to hang 100,000 black people, and you were found to be cooperating with the people (terrorist) who are planning such a thing......you are a traitor to America

Exactly, no it doesn't.  You might as well have stopped talking there because you are just making my point further.  It doesn't matter about the scale of the plot, my saying that you were a part of it doesn't mean you were.  Innocent until proven guilty.  That's a human right.  UN number 11.