During the cold war do you think that the nuclear programs that the U.S. and the Russians had actually provented an actually invasion? And do you think that the U.S. being in the Middle East right now is because they don't have any Nuclear Armorment?
Probably..cuz when the Russians had invaded the Allied Europe than America would have used Nukes.. so did Russia.. and now the Russians and Americans didnt want an Nuclear war so they did play a vital role against invasions cuz Russia could have easily run over the Allied Europe..cpt.fass1 wrote:
During the cold war do you think that the nuclear programs that the U.S. and the Russians had actually provented an actually invasion? And do you think that the U.S. being in the Middle East right now is because they don't have any Nuclear Armorment?
If you watch movie called, "WarGames". The actor by Matthew Broderick. No one will win if Nuclear War start!
That's not the point of nuclear war. The whole point of nuclear war is not to win, but to make sure the enemy doesn't win.aslpride wrote:
If you watch movie called, "WarGames". The actor by Matthew Broderick. No one will win if Nuclear War start!
Nuclear weapons most definatly stopped an escalation from the "cold" war to a "hot" (or shooting) war between the two superpowers. The whole idea of Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD for short, quite apt really) was that if one side launched an attack on the other neither side would stand a chance of winning. This was why at the height of the "cold" war there were tens of thousands of nuclear warheads in each sides armouries. Both sides felt the need to keep making more missiles in an attempt to get the upper hand in technology and numbers, but what they failed to realise was that there were already enough warheads to destroy the world thousands of times over.
Whilst Nuclear weapons certainly aren't a nice thing to have around, they definatly stopped a hell of a lot of people going to war in a war that we could quite possibly still be fighting now.
Whilst Nuclear weapons certainly aren't a nice thing to have around, they definatly stopped a hell of a lot of people going to war in a war that we could quite possibly still be fighting now.
And now those nukes are sitting in an abondoned silo, rusting away...
This is not going to end well. Just have, like 2000, not 20000.
This is not going to end well. Just have, like 2000, not 20000.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
I recon every country should have one nuke just for protection
if they use they nuke they get nuked by thousand of other countries
if they use they nuke they get nuked by thousand of other countries
I dont think they have prevented WW3 - just postponed it... but WW3 is still waiting for us (or our grand³children) just maybe with another constellation than US-Russia... dont want to be too pessimistic here but I think makind is bound to kill itself... take a look at this messageboard - even here people are not able to communicate in a civilized manner
interesting idea. If every nation on the planet had nukes, there would be no war since it would basically turn the world into one big pile of ashes.Beefy wrote:
I recon every country should have one nuke just for protection
if they use they nuke they get nuked by thousand of other countries
the concept did work during the cold war, but only because the USA and Russia in the end had reasonable heads of state who would not be willing to risk their own population in such a conflict. Problem is, that can not be said about all of the heads of state today, especially those in fundamentalist countries.
Which is why the US and other nations are pushing to deny certain nations access to nuclear enrichment / weapons.
Up to now, nukes most likely have helped to avoid WWIII, but the supremacy of the US has also helped a great deal.
Issue is, most of the superpowers are so dependant of each other economically or have so strong economic ties with each other that a global conflict betweeen them is becoming more and more unlikely. What would they be fighting for anyway ?
IMHO, right now, there are two issues that might spark a new world war:
1. energy resources, namely oil. fact is, we are running out of it. But our economies depend largely on it, so most nations that consume a lot of oil will have to increase their efforts to secure oil reserves at least for the forseeable future. Hence the efforts of all superpowers in the middle east. This includes china, btw.
Ironically, you tend to consume a lot more oil while fighting a war, which makes fighting for it not really attractive. And in the end, fighting for it won't help, since the reserves won't last forever, even if you control all of them. I do believe the superpowers realize that and will be smart enough to combine their efforts to find a different energy resource for the world economy to run on, hopefully a renewable one.
2. the clash between western democracies and islamic nations. It believe it is getting more and more obvious that islamic values and western values don't match. I also believe integration has failed for the majority of muslims living in europe today. This ideological war shows all signs of being able to turn into full fleged war sooner or later. then again, it would require a lot of islamic nations to unionize to even pose a valuable threat to the western nations. Right now, they don't have the resources, and they know it.
We definately have nukes, the question is do our nukes work after sitting there for more than ten years?
probly will, coz uranium is old, so is hydrogen. so pretty much they will work, countries w/ nukes can threaten other countries more effectivly than countries without nukes_j5689_ wrote:
We definately have nukes, the question is do our nukes work after sitting there for more than ten years?
Billions of dollars were invested in those lovable armageddon-bringeth-of-death noob cannons. I'm sure they would last at least half a century or more, with minimal maintainence._j5689_ wrote:
We definately have nukes, the question is do our nukes work after sitting there for more than ten years?
Well B.schuss, I belive the main reason that we are trying to avoid the Islamic nations from getting a hold of Nuclear arms is the fear of them actually using them. They have brought a great fear to every other person on the globe with there jihad kill the infidel mentality(obviously I'm not talking about all musliems). So with my knowledge of this I wouldn't want a power to get a hold of a WMD(way to go Bush he went to the wrong country, Iran Stupid).
Where Korea has nuclear arms it doesn't pose as much threat as a religous fanatic having it. Korea will hold on to them for protection and hopefully isn't dumb enough to use it, but there is a much higher possiblity of Iran using Nukes to take care of Israel. Now we all know that America is the only country to use a Nuke, and we've seen the devistation of them, so hopefully we'll keep the weapons out of peoples hands and hopefully one day disarm ourselves.
Where Korea has nuclear arms it doesn't pose as much threat as a religous fanatic having it. Korea will hold on to them for protection and hopefully isn't dumb enough to use it, but there is a much higher possiblity of Iran using Nukes to take care of Israel. Now we all know that America is the only country to use a Nuke, and we've seen the devistation of them, so hopefully we'll keep the weapons out of peoples hands and hopefully one day disarm ourselves.
While I personally agree that we should try to keep nukes out of the hands of the iranians, I am worried about the legal implications. On what legal grounds would the world community have the right to interfere with a sovereign nation's right to develop a nuclear program ?cpt.fass1 wrote:
Well B.schuss, I belive the main reason that we are trying to avoid the Islamic nations from getting a hold of Nuclear arms is the fear of them actually using them. They have brought a great fear to every other person on the globe with there jihad kill the infidel mentality(obviously I'm not talking about all musliems). So with my knowledge of this I wouldn't want a power to get a hold of a WMD(way to go Bush he went to the wrong country, Iran Stupid).
Where Korea has nuclear arms it doesn't pose as much threat as a religous fanatic having it. Korea will hold on to them for protection and hopefully isn't dumb enough to use it, but there is a much higher possiblity of Iran using Nukes to take care of Israel. Now we all know that America is the only country to use a Nuke, and we've seen the devistation of them, so hopefully we'll keep the weapons out of peoples hands and hopefully one day disarm ourselves.
I mean you didn't stop the North Koreans, you didn't stop China, you didn't stop Pakistan or India. Why would you trust them more than Iran ?
In the end, it doesn't really matter anyways. Just like in Iraq, the US will do what they consider necessary to ensure their national security interests are taken care of. And if that means going into Iran it will be done, I make no mistake about it.
My question to you is this: Imagine the US goes into Iran with no support from other nations. Even if you were able to win the military part of the conflict, what would you do after that ? Install a constant military presence there ? Ask the UN for a peace keeping force ? Destroy all nuclear facilities and then leave the country only to have to come back a couple of years later to do it all over again ?
The Iranian president may be a fundamentalist, but he is not a madman. You really think even if he had the nukes he would actually launch them at one of his neighbours ? He must know that such action would be the end of Iran.
"well", I hear you say, "we cannot run that risk". Fine, but you must be willing to put the lives of american and iranian soldiers and civilians on the line then. If you can do that without second-guessing, go right ahead.
The matter will go before the security council shortly. I wonder if the US will have enough patience to wait and see what the diplomats can achieve.
We should just nuke the whole planet seven times over and see if that prevents future wars.
Oh wait we don't have nukes. Maybe US could do it?
Oh wait we don't have nukes. Maybe US could do it?
Last edited by RingPirate (2006-02-22 10:39:42)
so far it has.think we might be among very few countries that can make nukes but dont have them
I belive I did read somewhere that the president of Iran was calling for the end of Isreal and the nuclear option was not put off. Not saying that he was going to do it, cause that would be pretty stupid. I know the risk of the men and women casulties would be great in an attack on Iran and I hope America doesn't run off again. But I would rather give up my own life then fuck up the planet with nuclear waste.
Now with China, how are we going to stop them? There were building nuclear arms with Russia in the start of the cold war, India is our Allie. All that is going on in our world right now is reminding me of 1984,
I hope we have the patience, man we have the worst president ever. Pretty much all the countries around the world are moving foward and ours is moving backwards.
Now with China, how are we going to stop them? There were building nuclear arms with Russia in the start of the cold war, India is our Allie. All that is going on in our world right now is reminding me of 1984,
I hope we have the patience, man we have the worst president ever. Pretty much all the countries around the world are moving foward and ours is moving backwards.
The problem with the cold war NOW is that there are hundreds of MISSING nukes from Russia's arsenal, noone know where they are... so anyone could have them, as far as nukes stopping war... the only reason they have stopped war so far is the fact that most countries are rational enough to not want to be responsible for the destruction that would be caused, however there are some very rich and powerful people that DO have access to nukes and that will not have any qualms about causing the end of the world, for instance the current government in Iran would not hesitate to destroy Isreal with nukes because they would be seen as heros to millions of people for destroying a large part of the Zionist movement in the middle east, and of course if they did it under the guise of a fatwah they are justified by religion... Whats more likely is when the civil war in the US starts (and it will) there are alot of countries that will want to take that opportunity to take revenge for all of the horrible things the american government has been resposible for on the last half a century or so, and in response rather than face an invasion on american soil the US gov would indeed end the world. My predidction is that China is the aggressor that will take advantage of war in the US and this will cause WW3 and the next dark ages, and yes I realise that I sound like I'm blowing things out of preportion, but if you look at world history you will see there is a pattern repeating here, the american government is heading away from personal freedoms and purposely removing more and more of the middle class which will leave only the very poor and the very rich... setting the stage for civil war and since the number of nations that would like to see America topple far outnumber the allies (as even technical allies would like to see this happen) someone is going to take advantage of that situation to launch attacks on them. Basically America has abused the power that they have on the world stage and like all others before it will fall into ruin, and in desperation will be the ones that launch the nukes. I mean a government that would attack its own people then blame it on a terrorist group that it created in the first place all just to get ahold of oil and the spoils of war would not be likely to hesitate to fire off a few nukes to defend its profits... (oh and if your gonna say that a couple of passenger jets toppled the buildings all I can say id gimme a break, anyone with half a brain can see that it wasn't even remotely possible for it to be anything but an inside job wake the hell up!)
We are all gonna die. AGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why wait just pull the trigger now.
Bullix.
No really. China isn't gonna attack you why should they. If at all they strive to be a superpower through their economy which is the only way to stay on top. Your America created it's own demon argument is lame. Nobody created any terrorists with the intention that they would later become an enemy of their former masters. My half a brain tells me, how the hell should I know what really happened. It also tells me you can't either. Judging by probabilities or logic my degeneraded half a brain also doubts anyone "inside" however evil would gain enough from such an act. So my guess is, you might just have to wait a little longer for your erh visions to come true.
Why wait just pull the trigger now.
Bullix.
No really. China isn't gonna attack you why should they. If at all they strive to be a superpower through their economy which is the only way to stay on top. Your America created it's own demon argument is lame. Nobody created any terrorists with the intention that they would later become an enemy of their former masters. My half a brain tells me, how the hell should I know what really happened. It also tells me you can't either. Judging by probabilities or logic my degeneraded half a brain also doubts anyone "inside" however evil would gain enough from such an act. So my guess is, you might just have to wait a little longer for your erh visions to come true.
Alright as far as our government causing 9/11 I don't belive our government had anything to do with that(other then neglecting the fact that it was going to happened). If you haven't noticed American people are lazy, more or less because the penilties that we have in this country outweight the crimes(15 miles over the speed limit cost my girlfriend 500 dollars, she makes 12 an hour so that's two weeks worth of work). You can go to jail here for parking tickets, also in New Jersey it's against the law to protect yourself. Our local and state governments are bankrupt they need to get money from us anyway they can.
Now as far as our civil war is concerned, it's not going to happen. Doesn't mean that our government isn't going to collapse but there is really no motavating factor here, and anyone who would dare stand up and start to organize a movement in that direction would immedatly be deemed a terrorist and locked up for the rest of his/her life. The only real way a civil war would happen would be in a manner such as what happened to the french people with the riots, then all sides would explode.
As far as invasion is concerned I don't belive that is a technical issue, even if there was a civil war the trips across the seas would still be seen and jets would be deployed. It might have happened in teh 50-70 but not in the 2000's. But the stage is going to be set in motion for the "terriorists" to deploy the Nuke if Bush get's his way. Haven't read all about it, but he's trying to let our shipping yards in New York and New Jersey(there's a few more, but we're the most sensitive about the terrorist issue we still have a big hole in our city) fall into a known ali quada supporter hands. Way to go homeland security.
Now as far as our civil war is concerned, it's not going to happen. Doesn't mean that our government isn't going to collapse but there is really no motavating factor here, and anyone who would dare stand up and start to organize a movement in that direction would immedatly be deemed a terrorist and locked up for the rest of his/her life. The only real way a civil war would happen would be in a manner such as what happened to the french people with the riots, then all sides would explode.
As far as invasion is concerned I don't belive that is a technical issue, even if there was a civil war the trips across the seas would still be seen and jets would be deployed. It might have happened in teh 50-70 but not in the 2000's. But the stage is going to be set in motion for the "terriorists" to deploy the Nuke if Bush get's his way. Haven't read all about it, but he's trying to let our shipping yards in New York and New Jersey(there's a few more, but we're the most sensitive about the terrorist issue we still have a big hole in our city) fall into a known ali quada supporter hands. Way to go homeland security.
" (oh and if your gonna say that a couple of passenger jets toppled the buildings all I can say id gimme a break, anyone with half a brain can see that it wasn't even remotely possible for it to be anything but an inside job wake the hell up!) "
Let me tell you a short story of all knowing secret services. I grew up in East Germany. We had quite a suphisticated police state. My best friends parents divorced. They lived 2 floors below us. The mother would keep the kids, so his dad told my father he's gonna try to get an admission to go to West Germany (was only allowed in very special cases like if relatives died cause they were afraid you wouldn't come back). My father told him the Secret Service isn't that stupid and that he should be careful. Well he got the permission and didn't come back unti East Germany collapsed. Those Secret Service guys are just people too. They fuck up sometimes.
Let me tell you a short story of all knowing secret services. I grew up in East Germany. We had quite a suphisticated police state. My best friends parents divorced. They lived 2 floors below us. The mother would keep the kids, so his dad told my father he's gonna try to get an admission to go to West Germany (was only allowed in very special cases like if relatives died cause they were afraid you wouldn't come back). My father told him the Secret Service isn't that stupid and that he should be careful. Well he got the permission and didn't come back unti East Germany collapsed. Those Secret Service guys are just people too. They fuck up sometimes.
Its called balence of power.
Yeah well the Bush family has had ties to Iran for decades, but the truth of the matter is, it is scientifically impossible that those planes downed the WTC buildings, take that on top of the fact that there was a 16foot wide hole in the pentagon after the "plane" hit it when one engine would have made a whole that big after supposedly hitting the lawn and not leaving a scratch on it, the fact that building 7 was barely damaged and somehow also imploded in on itself... I mean come on... its just totally ridiculous to believe that it wasn't planned to the last detail by people that had the access to plant the explosives (and they did indeed evacuate the buildings several times in the weeks leading up to 911 and had dozens of engineers in there with the security camera's turned off... ) Bush is a liar and a mass murderer, and wasn't elected for either of his terms... I know your not known for being the brightest nation but get a clue...cpt.fass1 wrote:
Alright as far as our government causing 9/11 I don't belive our government had anything to do with that(other then neglecting the fact that it was going to happened). If you haven't noticed American people are lazy, more or less because the penilties that we have in this country outweight the crimes(15 miles over the speed limit cost my girlfriend 500 dollars, she makes 12 an hour so that's two weeks worth of work). You can go to jail here for parking tickets, also in New Jersey it's against the law to protect yourself. Our local and state governments are bankrupt they need to get money from us anyway they can.
Now as far as our civil war is concerned, it's not going to happen. Doesn't mean that our government isn't going to collapse but there is really no motavating factor here, and anyone who would dare stand up and start to organize a movement in that direction would immedatly be deemed a terrorist and locked up for the rest of his/her life. The only real way a civil war would happen would be in a manner such as what happened to the french people with the riots, then all sides would explode.
As far as invasion is concerned I don't belive that is a technical issue, even if there was a civil war the trips across the seas would still be seen and jets would be deployed. It might have happened in teh 50-70 but not in the 2000's. But the stage is going to be set in motion for the "terriorists" to deploy the Nuke if Bush get's his way. Haven't read all about it, but he's trying to let our shipping yards in New York and New Jersey(there's a few more, but we're the most sensitive about the terrorist issue we still have a big hole in our city) fall into a known ali quada supporter hands. Way to go homeland security.
And maybe they also planed out the hurricane that destroyed New Orleans, cause lord knows we hate the french. Ok now that being said what is the motavator behind the attacks, Oil? Well we won't be able to directly tell for a while, we know it's not WMD, or to over throw a dictator who actually was apposed to Ali Quada. OK I'm looking into the evacuations right now asking around, where is your source on this? Also I know for a fact they told people to stay where they were when it happened and didn't evecuate because they didn't think the buildings where going to collapse.
Have you ever been to the states expecally the airports before 9/11. And he definatly didn't win either of the elections which was one of the biggest losses this nation has ever had.
Have you ever been to the states expecally the airports before 9/11. And he definatly didn't win either of the elections which was one of the biggest losses this nation has ever had.
I'm still laughing about this one.(BS)Commander_Canuck wrote:
Yeah well the Bush family has had ties to Iran for decades, but the truth of the matter is, it is scientifically impossible that those planes downed the WTC buildings, take that on top of the fact that there was a 16foot wide hole in the pentagon after the "plane" hit it when one engine would have made a whole that big after supposedly hitting the lawn and not leaving a scratch on it, the fact that building 7 was barely damaged and somehow also imploded in on itself... I mean come on... its just totally ridiculous to believe that it wasn't planned to the last detail by people that had the access to plant the explosives (and they did indeed evacuate the buildings several times in the weeks leading up to 911 and had dozens of engineers in there with the security camera's turned off... ) Bush is a liar and a mass murderer, and wasn't elected for either of his terms... I know your not known for being the brightest nation but get a clue...cpt.fass1 wrote:
Alright as far as our government causing 9/11 I don't belive our government had anything to do with that(other then neglecting the fact that it was going to happened). If you haven't noticed American people are lazy, more or less because the penilties that we have in this country outweight the crimes(15 miles over the speed limit cost my girlfriend 500 dollars, she makes 12 an hour so that's two weeks worth of work). You can go to jail here for parking tickets, also in New Jersey it's against the law to protect yourself. Our local and state governments are bankrupt they need to get money from us anyway they can.
Now as far as our civil war is concerned, it's not going to happen. Doesn't mean that our government isn't going to collapse but there is really no motavating factor here, and anyone who would dare stand up and start to organize a movement in that direction would immedatly be deemed a terrorist and locked up for the rest of his/her life. The only real way a civil war would happen would be in a manner such as what happened to the french people with the riots, then all sides would explode.
As far as invasion is concerned I don't belive that is a technical issue, even if there was a civil war the trips across the seas would still be seen and jets would be deployed. It might have happened in teh 50-70 but not in the 2000's. But the stage is going to be set in motion for the "terriorists" to deploy the Nuke if Bush get's his way. Haven't read all about it, but he's trying to let our shipping yards in New York and New Jersey(there's a few more, but we're the most sensitive about the terrorist issue we still have a big hole in our city) fall into a known ali quada supporter hands. Way to go homeland security.