SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+640|3935

Uzique wrote:

i don't think PhD's are a special elect who should be paid a lofty salary because they're society's philosopher-kings.
Yes they should. They wrote enough papers to be owed it.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+493|3668
they are obviously highly qualified, highly skilled workers in a knowledge economy.

the market itself prices university educations at a very high reckoning. it's just the money gets hoovered up by management and speculators.

doesn't make any sense to me that the actual academic workforce of top universities are engaged in such a bitter labour/union struggle.

some of these institutions are richer than small states.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6322|eXtreme to the maX
Fuck Israel
uziq
Member
+493|3668
except there isn't a superfluous supply of candidates for oxford-level academia, is there?

the wages are artificially depressed, not obeying some iron law of 'the market'.

how odd: supermarket cashier jobs for which everyone is ably qualified pay more than jobs requiring top-level doctorates.

but iSn'T thEre a HuGe suPplY?

and none of which even begins to address the issue of extremely rich employers deigning to underpay their key staff. in very few high-level professions do people accept their pay-rate based on 'the iron law of supply and demand'. do you really think your salary as an engineer has been established by the fact there's, erm, a great paucity of engineers? or how about lawyers? do they all accept penury at their top law firms because there's just so many people passing through law school, after all?

any institution or, indeed, business (as modern universities are) which generate huge annual profits should probably think about divvying up the loot a little better with their most key and fundamental workers. there's more than one way to establish a payscale within an organization.

Last edited by uziq (2022-02-17 02:32:22)

Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6932
one thing to come to mind that legal academics who teach at universities are vastly vastly underpaid compared to their law firm counterparts. in an odd way the uni's have to pay at a certain base level to make sure they at least stay as an academic or they'll fuck off to big firm. i've heard thats why law schools are very expensive to run compared to say business school where the MBAs are now an ez cash cow. legit just business articles published 5 years ago about "uber's strategy".
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
uziq
Member
+493|3668
it's supply and demand, duh! there are, uh, way too many fully qualified top lawyers lawyers queuing up to teach at universities.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6987|PNW

In the game industry, it's traditional to lay off as many people as possible after an amazingly successful year or release. Why do you hate tradition?
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+640|3935
Teaching is easy compared to whatever it is lawyers do all day. I bet university law school lecturers don't even have to deal with students slapping each other.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6932

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Teaching is easy compared to whatever it is lawyers do all day. I bet university law school lecturers don't even have to deal with students slapping each other.
some are actually practicing lawyers who teach for the fun of it and literally tell us "i don't really get paid for this," some smarter firm partners use it as a recruiting method.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6987|PNW

Years back in 90s college, I caught my computer electronics prof sending student profiles to various firms. He rushed to minimize the stuff on the screen, so I kept a straight face and pretended not to notice while I asked my question. It was on my page and a bit glowing with buzzwords like 'potential,' and 'promising,' so that a nice booster for awhile.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+640|3935
That's pretty cool. I make sure to tell my kids their haircuts came out nice or if their new shoes are really cool. I know it makes them feel nice.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6987|PNW

Basic compliments like that improve moods and stick with people for years sometimes, especially when they don't get very many. Low cost, high effect. If the girl who slapped the boy had a better life, maybe she wouldn't be slapping people, and for the boy, maybe he wouldn't have gotten involved with a girl who slaps people.

Is there a running start parallel in NJ? If so, are you allowed to promote it?
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+640|3935
We don't have a statewide policy but plenty of schools have a program available. NJ state colleges are some of the most expensive in the nation. Probably why no state wide program.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+493|3668
education, education, algorithm
https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v44/n04 … -a-mistake

The​ ideological assumption, taken as read by the OECD or the World Economic Forum, that the benefits of literacy – indeed of education generally – are ultimately to be realised in the marketplace has provoked huge political disruption and psychological pain in the UK over the last ten years. The trebling of university tuition fees in 2012 was justified on the basis that the quality of higher education is commensurate with graduate earnings. The hope, when the new fee regime was introduced, was that a competitive market would spontaneously emerge as different ‘providers’ of higher education charged different rates according to the ‘quality’ of what they had to offer. When the market failed to come about, because so many universities opted to charge the maximum fees allowed, the government unleashed further policies in a bid to create more competition. In 2013, the cap on the number of students a university could accept was unexpectedly removed, leading to vast over-recruitment by ambitious universities (many of which didn’t have enough teaching space to cope with the increased numbers), and dire financial consequences for others. In 2016, the Teaching Excellence Framework, overseen by a new Office for Students, was introduced; it measured, among other things, universities’ graduate employment rates. And since 2019, with the Treasury increasingly unhappy about the amount of student debt still sitting on the government’s balance sheet and the government resorting to ‘culture war’ at every opportunity, there has been an effort to single out degree programmes that represent ‘poor value for money’, measured in terms of graduate earnings. (For reasons best known to itself, the usually independent Institute for Fiscal Studies has been leading the way in finding correlations between degree programmes and future earnings.) Many of these programmes are in the arts and humanities, and are now habitually referred to by Tory politicians and their supporters in the media as ‘low-value degrees’.

But if the agenda is to reduce the number of young people studying humanities subjects, and to steer them instead towards STEM subjects, finance and business studies, the rhetoric is superfluous: the tuition fee hike, combined with the growing profile of league tables, had already worked its magic. The number of students studying English and modern languages at university fell by a third over the decade starting in 2011, and the number studying history by a fifth. In 2012, English was the most popular A level subject, with ninety thousand students taking the exam that summer; by 2021, that figure had fallen to 57,000. The number studying French and German at A level fell by around half over a similar period. Academic jobs – even whole departments – in these areas have been threatened by a combination of brute market forces and university managers beholden to ‘enterprise’ and ‘impact’.

One consequence of all this is that studying the humanities may become a luxury reserved for those who can fall back on the cultural and financial advantages of their class position. (This effect has already been noticed among young people going into acting, where the results are more visible to the public than they are in academia or heritage organisations.) Yet, given the changing class composition of the UK over the past thirty years, it’s not clear that contemporary elites have any more sympathy for the humanities than the Conservative Party does. A friend of mine recently attended an open day at a well-known London private school, and noticed that while there was a long queue to speak to the maths and science teachers, nobody was waiting to speak to the English teacher. When she asked what was going on, she was told: ‘I’m afraid parents here are very ambitious.’ Parents at such schools, where fees have tripled in real terms since the early 1980s, tend to work in financial and business services themselves, and spend their own days profitably manipulating and analysing numbers on screens. When it comes to the transmission of elite status from one generation to the next, Shakespeare or Plato no longer has the same cachet as economics or physics.

Moral​ panics about ‘political correctness’ date back to the 1970s and early 1980s, when there was no mandated national curriculum, and conservatives could entertain paranoid fantasies of ‘loony left’ councils busying themselves with the policing of language. It’s true that teachers then exercised considerable discretion over what children learned, and central government had little power or influence in the matter. The current panic over ‘wokeism’ on the part of Tory politicians and some newspapers has an entirely different pedagogical and political context. As the academies programme expands, more and more schools have been brought under the direct supervision of the Department for Education, while all live under the gaze of Ofsted. Local authorities have been stripped of their powers or – in the case of the GLC – abolished altogether. Universities are forced to compete with one another, their performance assessed by means of financial metrics, league tables and burdensome audits. Teachers, in both schools and universities, are alienated and exhausted by the routinisation and sheer volume of work, and a worrying number want to leave the profession altogether. Despite all this, humanities teachers remain the focus in the culture war waged by the right.

Leaving aside the strategic political use of terms such as ‘woke’ and ‘cancel culture’, it would be hard to deny that we live in an age of heightened anxiety over the words we use, in particular the labels we apply to people. This has benefits: it can help to bring discriminatory practices to light, potentially leading to institutional reform. It can also lead to fruitless, distracting public arguments, such as the one that rumbled on for weeks over Angela Rayner’s description of Conservatives as ‘scum’. More and more, words are dredged up, edited or rearranged for the purpose of harming someone. Isolated words have acquired a weightiness in contemporary politics and public argument, while on digital media snippets of text circulate without context, as if the meaning of a single sentence were perfectly contained within it, walled off from the surrounding text. The exemplary textual form in this regard is the newspaper headline or corporate slogan: a carefully curated series of words, designed to cut through the blizzard of competing information.

If people today worry about using the ‘wrong’ words, it is not because there has been a sudden revival of 1970s pedagogy or radical local government, or, given the political and economic trends of the past dozen years, because the humanities are flexing their muscles. Visit any actual school or university today (as opposed to the imaginary ones described in the Daily Mail or the speeches of Conservative ministers) and you will find highly disciplined, hierarchical institutions, focused on metrics, performance evaluations, ‘behaviour’ and quantifiable ‘learning outcomes’. Andreas Schleicher is winning, not Michel Foucault. If young people today worry about using the ‘wrong’ words, it isn’t because of the persistence of the leftist cultural power of forty years ago, but – on the contrary – because of the barrage of initiatives and technologies dedicated to reversing that power. The ideology of measurable literacy, combined with a digital net that has captured social and educational life, leaves young people ill at ease with the language they use and fearful of what might happen should they trip up.

There’s no question that literacy and pedagogy must evolve alongside technology. It’s possible to recognise this while also defending an educational humanism – with a small ‘h’ – that values the time and space given to a young person to mess around, try things out, make mistakes, have a say, and not immediately find out what score they’ve got as a result. It has become clear, as we witness the advance of Panopto, Class Dojo and the rest of the EdTech industry, that one of the great things about an old-fashioned classroom is the facilitation of unrecorded, unaudited speech, and of uninterrupted reading and writing.
whole thing worth a read if you're in education, macb. lots about educational tech and distance learning in the pandemic, and how it fits into wider trends of technologization (which goes hand-in-hand with marketization).
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+640|3935
If we only funded the STEM degrees we will end up with a glut of engineers driving our cabs like the Soviet Union.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+493|3668
it's ironic that we spent the last 20-30 years gloating about the inferiority of china's education system, their 'cram school' systems, their rote-learning methods, their hyperfocus on metrics and confucian-style constant examinations. meanwhile we have demonized our humanities, excised everything considered 'non-quantifiable', and made our education systems as much like china's as possible.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6932

uziq wrote:

it's ironic that we spent the last 20-30 years gloating about the inferiority of china's education system, their 'cram school' systems, their rote-learning methods, their hyperfocus on metrics and confucian-style constant examinations. meanwhile we have demonized our humanities, excised everything considered 'non-quantifiable', and made our education systems as much like china's as possible.
you opened my eyes on that whole recent "WE NEED MORE STEM!" push. then again people forget the purposes of humanities is to learn and grow and not to get a jerb...
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uziq
Member
+493|3668
of course, the 'ideal' humanist education (small 'h' again, not humanities as a specialism) was prescribed in a different era, before the privitization of higher education and the marketization of our everyday lives. it's easy to be lofty about the benefits of 'disinterested learning' when only 20% of the population go to university and the economy has plenty of breathing space for young people to explore and grow.

still, it's political decisions that have brought us to this juncture.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6322|eXtreme to the maX
Can't be long before we're back to status normal which is humanities degrees are the reserve on indolent kids of rich parents who wear a degree with no useful application as a badge of honour.

Eton - Tick
Balliol - Tick
Esoteric degree which allows you to use obscure references the way masons use handshakes - Tick

Clearly your parents were rich - Why don't you come to the polo and we'll talk about a job in govt?
Fuck Israel
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6322|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

it's ironic that we spent the last 20-30 years gloating about the inferiority of china's education system, their 'cram school' systems, their rote-learning methods, their hyperfocus on metrics and confucian-style constant examinations. meanwhile we have demonized our humanities, excised everything considered 'non-quantifiable', and made our education systems as much like china's as possible.
They've built a powerhouse economy, Britain is dependent on laundering the gains of Russian gangsters, did no-one in Britain read a history book and see this coming?
Fuck Israel
uziq
Member
+493|3668
not entirely an unshakeable powerhouse economy, it's a house of cards as reliant on rampant property/land speculation as anything else.

did china not learn a thing from the 2008 financial crash, is a more germane question?

as for 'built' an economy, as if it was intrinsically tied into their education system and worldview ... ehm, having 3 successive generations of ordo-liberal free-market ideologues happily relocate all their own manufacturing base to your country is quite a boon, i imagine. it's not like china became the factory of the world based only on its own innate wisdom.

if you want to see what happens in a rote-learning-based, engineering-championing society that isn't gladly thrown the sop of all the world's manufacturing and exports, look at the soviet union.

besides, nobody is envying their educational system and its fundamental precepts. it produces obeisant workhorses, not creative thought or innovators.

amazing that we have tried to nail our own younger generations to the procrustean-confucian bed.

Last edited by uziq (2022-02-20 06:18:36)

Larssen
Member
+99|2103

uziq wrote:

they are obviously highly qualified, highly skilled workers in a knowledge economy.

the market itself prices university educations at a very high reckoning. it's just the money gets hoovered up by management and speculators.

doesn't make any sense to me that the actual academic workforce of top universities are engaged in such a bitter labour/union struggle.

some of these institutions are richer than small states.
I think extreme privatisation of higher education was a terrible decision to begin with. This is a public good, as such higher education should receive generous public funding. It would help remedy the competition based models as well. The allure of top universities as being 'the best' is a capitalist driven marketing ploy most of all.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6322|eXtreme to the maX
Not without limits though, should public money really be available to put people on the inside track to a cushy role in elite govt when they could be learning something useful?

Subjects fall by the wayside, should there be fully funded courses to study alchemy and astrology?
Fuck Israel
uziq
Member
+493|3668
it’s honestly so fucking funny that you think ‘the humanities’ and the eton-oxford 0.1% are like one contiguous venn diagram.

you do realise that 99.5% of graduates in the humanities necessarily have nothing at all to do with the elite and their path to power, right? eton sends perhaps 40 or 50 boys up to oxbridge every year. we are talking about a discipline spread across several hundred world-reputed institutions which educates 100,000s every year.

you are just so staggeringly stupid. as if your average history graduate from manchester or glasgow has fuckall to do with the inbred Conservative leadership.

do you think that dynamic will disappear if you defund the humanities and close humanities departments? or, er, do you not think the rich self-selecting elite will merely migrate to a different degree path? PPE already fulfils this function and isn’t anything to do with ‘the humanities’. law school and business school fulfills this function in the states, not classics or ‘literatoor’.

it’s amazing. we talk about the exploitation of the academic workforce and you say ‘good! nur nurrr.’ as if academics in the humanities first role is to train decadent spoiled leaders and not, er, you know, contribute to a huge and rich field of human knowledge

you get your worldview from the daily mail or something. it’s genuinely so fucking funny.

Last edited by uziq (2022-02-21 03:47:50)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6322|eXtreme to the maX
Students are voting with their feet, sorry.
Fuck Israel

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