Thats the bit I take issue with because fundamentally it was.WWII wasn't primarily between the USSR and Germany, that's bollocks.
Well I wasn't, at all.War Man wrote:
I was, Hitler was partly the reason Germany lost.Shocking wrote:
I hope you were as serious with that statement as I was with the one you quoted.
Yes, and then his madness cost him by not letting his Generals run the show, plus him take control of production of things. The Sturmgewher being banned by Hitler until the tool finally was presented with the gun is a tiny example.Shocking wrote:
Well I wasn't, at all.War Man wrote:
I was, Hitler was partly the reason Germany lost.Shocking wrote:
I hope you were as serious with that statement as I was with the one you quoted.
Hitler was instrumental in getting the nazis and Germany off the ground. His charisma made it all happen in the first place.
Last edited by War Man (2011-06-23 08:41:18)
This is such an oversimplistic view of the conflict I don't even know where to begin. A lot of other things were going in the world which influenced 'it' a lot. For starters you're leaving the entire german navy out of the picture. "War" is more than simply people shooting at eachother on land, or casualty numbers.Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:
Thats the bit I take issue with because fundamentally it was.WWII wasn't primarily between the USSR and Germany, that's bollocks.
The war was in their territory with their soldiers. Sure other things were going on World wide which influenced it a little bit here and there but when all is said and done it was between Germany and Russia.
Many of the things he did were detrimental to nazi succes and many of the things he did were instrumental to nazi succes. He wasn't perfect and had major flaws but at the same time all of it happened due to him. Hence I can't really judge his failures that much.War Man wrote:
Yes, and then his madness cost him by not letting his Generals run the show, plus him take control of production of things. The Sturmgewher being banned by Hitler until the tool finally was presented with the gun is a tiny example.
Last edited by Shocking (2011-06-23 08:46:49)
The only exclusions were civilian deaths although these are primarily in eastern europe.Shocking wrote:
This is such an oversimplistic view of the conflict I don't even know where to begin. A lot of other things were going in the world which influenced 'it' a lot. For starters you're leaving the entire german navy out of the picture. "War" is more than simply people shooting at each other on land, or casualty numbers.Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:
Thats the bit I take issue with because fundamentally it was.WWII wasn't primarily between the USSR and Germany, that's bollocks.
The war was in their territory with their soldiers. Sure other things were going on World wide which influenced it a little bit here and there but when all is said and done it was between Germany and Russia.
Last edited by Cheeky_Ninja06 (2011-06-23 08:53:52)
If there is one thing America is famous for it is intelligence and military tactical brilliance.[/sarcasm]War Man wrote:
We're intelligent not to have battles on our mainland.
That is completely wrong.cheeky wrote:
If Britain and the USA had not got involved in WWII then the Nazis and USSR would have duked it out and it could have gone either way.
Last edited by Shocking (2011-06-23 08:58:46)
Agreed to a point. Who is the war in Libya between?Shocking wrote:
Damages? It's about contributions into the war. Each being invaluable, not X doing more than Y. You can't just saw off the major support beams and expect a building to keep standing upright, same with how an army goes about its business - it doesn't work without logistical support.
Not sure I can agree unless you can substantiate this.Where would Russia have been without the Commonwealth and the US? They would've been overrun completely that's what.
Thats kind of my point no nation other than the USSR was going to have any chance of holding back the Nazi war machine. We could have given identical support to France but it would never have been successful.Where would the Commonwealth & US have been without Russia in the picture? Goodbye England, because there was no way they could field the manpower required (in both industrial as military efforts) to stop the nazi war machine.
Well its fairly obvious that all Nazi naval operations are going to act to limit supplies to Britain and USSR because thats where the sea is. There isnt anywhere else they could use their navy.Not to mention the fact that all major nazi naval operations were intended to attack convoys from the western allies to Russia or to directly attack them. I shouldn't have to explain why casualty numbers at sea and in the air will be much, much fewer than in a land war. That doesn't at all mean that they didn't fight as hard or their contributions were somehow less valuable to the overall effort.
The Nazis wanted Britain to ally with them so that they could destroy USSR together. For many years Hitler tried to convince us to join his side. If he had absolutely no need then why bother?That is completely wrong.cheeky wrote:
If Britain and the USA had not got involved in WWII then the Nazis and USSR would have duked it out and it could have gone either way.
The rebels (whoever they may be) + NATO vs Gadaffi and his supporters.cheeky wrote:
Agreed to a point. Who is the war in Libya between?
Last edited by Shocking (2011-06-23 09:19:58)
What does he know?W. Churchill: "Red Army decided the fate of German militarism"
Source: "Correspondence of the Council of Ministers of the USSR with the U.S. Presidents and Prime Ministers of Great Britain during the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:
What does he know?W. Churchill: "Red Army decided the fate of German militarism"
herf derf and hitler was also the reason the nazis came to power and began their campaign IN THE FIRST PLACE.War Man wrote:
I was, Hitler was partly the reason Germany lost.Shocking wrote:
I hope you were as serious with that statement as I was with the one you quoted.
probably a lot more than you, the undergrad, right? i mean he was one of the MAJOR WORLD LEADERS IN THE CONFLICTCheeky_Ninja06 wrote:
What does he know?W. Churchill: "Red Army decided the fate of German militarism"
you do know the US had more military casualties than the UK, right?Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:
The only exclusions were civilian deaths although these are primarily in eastern europe.Shocking wrote:
This is such an oversimplistic view of the conflict I don't even know where to begin. A lot of other things were going in the world which influenced 'it' a lot. For starters you're leaving the entire german navy out of the picture. "War" is more than simply people shooting at each other on land, or casualty numbers.Cheeky_Ninja06 wrote:
Thats the bit I take issue with because fundamentally it was.
The war was in their territory with their soldiers. Sure other things were going on World wide which influenced it a little bit here and there but when all is said and done it was between Germany and Russia.
USA lost 9,500 members of the Merchant Navy (included in all above quoted figures)
War involves many things clearly but when 2 nations on opposing sides account for 90% of the fighting it is difficult to justify that they are not the main participants.
Again justify that the USA suffered comparable damages to the USSR.
If Britain and the USA had not got involved in WWII then the Nazis and USSR would have duked it out and it could have gone either way. If USSR had not joined the war Britain would definitely have been invaded and had little chance of success. Logistically I dont see why Germany could not go on to invade USA once Europe was under control however I feel politically it would have proved impossible.
what was it?Varegg wrote:
Adolf Hitlers father changed his last name, what was it before Hitler?
Schicklgruber11 Bravo wrote:
what was it?Varegg wrote:
Adolf Hitlers father changed his last name, what was it before Hitler?
SA Brown ... anything else?11 Bravo wrote:
ah. didnt know that.
so what would you like to discuss now?
what was his favorite color? (colour)
I got this email today.Sunday, December 7th, 1941--Admiral Chester Nimitz was attending a concert in Washington D.C. He was paged and told there was a phone call for him. When he answered the phone, it was President Franklin Delano Roosevelt on the
phone. He told Admiral Nimitz that he (Nimitz) would now be the Commander of the Pacific Fleet.
Admiral Nimitz flew to Hawaii to assume command of the Pacific Fleet. He landed at Pearl Harbor on Christmas Eve, 1941. There was such a spirit of despair, dejection and defeat--you would have thought the Japanese had already won the war. On Christmas Day, 1941, Adm. Nimitz was given a boat tour of the destruction wrought on Pearl Harbor by the Japanese. Big sunken battleships and navy vessels cluttered the waters every where you looked. As the tour boat returned to dock, the young helmsman of the boat asked, "Well Admiral, what do you think after seeing all this destruction?" Admiral Nimitz's reply shocked everyone within the sound of his voice. Admiral Nimitz said, "The Japanese made three of the biggest mistakes an attack force could ever make or God was taking care of America. Which do you think it was?" Shocked and surprised, the young helmsman asked, "What do mean by saying the Japanese made the three biggest mistakes an attack force ever made?"
Nimitz explained. Mistake
number one: the Japanese attacked on Sunday morning. Nine out of every ten crewmen of those ships were ashore on leave. If those same ships had been lured to sea and been sunk--we would have lost 38,000 men instead of 3,800.
Mistake number two: when the Japanese saw all those battleships lined in a row, they got so carried away sinking those battleships, they never once bombed our dry docks opposite those ships. If they had destroyed our dry docks, we would have had to tow everyone of those ships to America to be repaired. As it is now, the ships are in shallow water and can be raised. One tug can pull them over to the dry docks, and we can have them repaired and at sea by the time we could have towed them to America. And I already have crews ashore anxious to man those ships.
Mistake number three: every drop of fuel in the Pacific theater of war is in top of the ground storage tanks five miles away over that hill. One attack plane could have strafed those tanks and destroyed our fuel supply. That's why I say the Japanese made three of the biggest mistakes an attack force could make or God was taking care of America..