BF2S Forums Israel and Palestine

Dilbert_X wrote:

Which the Israelis won't accept, so back to square one and the 1967 borders.

which the palestinians arent happy with

"more than 80% of Palestinians would not give up the demand for refugees from the 1947-49 war and their descendants to be able to move to Israel, a move that would negate the existence of Israel's ethnic Jewish majority. As such, the majority of Palestinians do not accept the concept of two states for two people"

seems like the problem isn't so one-sided after all

AussieReaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Yes I agree, the Palestinians have a right to exist, now if we can get the Israeli army to quit trying to destroy them.

That will be easy, surrender the war that Hamas the PLO Islamic nations etc started against Israel. Isn't surrender how most wars usually end? Stop firing rockets into Israel from locations Israel has given back. SHOW Israel you are willing to negotiate a true peace and not simply bide time until you can regroup again for another attack like history shows happens.

Who broke the 10 month ceasefire?

I'll give you a hint, it was Israel.

Link please. Oh and I hope for your argument Israel had absolutely no reason. But I won't hold my breathe

Last edited by lowing (2011-02-23 16:33:42)

Dilbert_X wrote:

There's going to need to be compromise on both sides, but generally speaking the Israelis are the aggressors and should be made to compromise more.

Look I'm talking about feasibility here. Say you got your Palestinian state, it will simply collapse in on itself. No economy, and whatever economy it has will be completely dependant on it's direct neighbours and their willingness to trade. The entire place would be a never-ending subsidies pit.

After the palestinians realize that nothing changed for them except an official declaration on paper that tells them they're now independant, who do you think they will blame? The conflict will simply be allowed to continue indefinitely.

Either the state gets forcibly or voluntarily absorbed by Israel or the situation will never, ever change.

lowing wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Who broke the 10 month ceasefire?

I'll give you a hint, it was Israel.

Link please. Oh and I hope for your argument Israel had absolutely no reason. But I won't hold my breathe

Please, do.

The independent wrote:

Hamas militants in the Gaza Strip fired more than 35 rockets towards Israel today, the army and the Islamist group said, hours after the Israeli army killed six militants in the coastal territory.

    Hamas claimed responsibility for the attacks, the first such announcement by the Islamist group since an Egyptian-brokered ceasefire with Israel went into effect on June 19."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world … 92978.html


Another?

The Guardian wrote:

Hamas militants fired more than 35 rockets into Israel today, hours after the Israeli army killed six people in the Gaza Strip in the first major exchange of fire since a truce took effect in June.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/no … ians-egypt

AussieReaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Who broke the 10 month ceasefire?

I'll give you a hint, it was Israel.

Link please. Oh and I hope for your argument Israel had absolutely no reason. But I won't hold my breathe

Please, do.

The independent wrote:

Hamas militants in the Gaza Strip fired more than 35 rockets towards Israel today, the army and the Islamist group said, hours after the Israeli army killed six militants in the coastal territory.

    Hamas claimed responsibility for the attacks, the first such announcement by the Islamist group since an Egyptian-brokered ceasefire with Israel went into effect on June 19."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world … 92978.html


Another?

The Guardian wrote:

Hamas militants fired more than 35 rockets into Israel today, hours after the Israeli army killed six people in the Gaza Strip in the first major exchange of fire since a truce took effect in June.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/no … ians-egypt

"Israeli airstrikes killed five militants and Israeli soldiers shot dead a gunman during an incursion into the Gaza Strip on Tuesday."
"The army said it launched the airstrikes after militants attacked soldiers who entered the Gaza Strip to destroy a tunnel that Hamas had planned to use to kidnap Israeli soldiers."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
From your source, so much for not having a reason. good thing I didnt hold my breathe.

Last edited by lowing (2011-02-23 17:41:59)

AussieReaper wrote:

"The army said it launched the airstrikes after militants..."

Yeah, I'm sure the Israel Army wouldn't lie about a thing like that.

They've never done that before. Oh wait. Yes they have. White phosphorus.

Yes yes yes,  you believe EVERYTHING negative about Israel and refuse to acknowledge anything negative about who they are fighting. Oh well.

Oh would you PLEASE stop with the '67 borders crap.
In case you missed it the first time, Dil

So, the thinking is that IF Israel would just go back to the 1967 borders, all the ME wold calm down and play nice. Right?

Lets think about this.
The '67 borders are used as a line AFTER the six day war smack down the Arabs got handed.
This war started June 5 '67.
In Sept of that year, at the Arab League summit, the Khartoum Resolution was passed.
In part:
The Arab States abide, namely, no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it, and insistence on the rights of the Palestinian people in their own country.

So, how do you work on the second, a Palestinian Country, with out doing the first?
Just more of the same in the ME.

Israel is NOT going to give up the Golan or East Jerusalem. Forget it, not going to happen... get over it.
The Golan is the way Syria has used to try to get into Israel, what two, three times?
East Jerusalem is tit for tat from the  Jordanian occupation in 1948 when the Jordanians immediately expelled all the Jewish residents.

As for the "Right of return"

Former Prime Minister of Syria Khalid al-Azm recalled in his memoirs:

Since 1948 it is we who demanded the return of the refugees to their country, while it is we who made them leave it.
We brought disaster upon one million Arab refugees, by inviting them and bringing pressure to bear upon them to leave their land, their homes, their work and their industry. We have rendered them dispossessed, unemployed, whilst every one of them had work or a trade by which he could gain his livelihood.

The point is that they were TOLD to leave by their leadership. The Israeli forces pushed this along.

Last edited by Karbin (2011-02-23 22:06:43)

Dilbert_X wrote:

Whatever the reason for leaving, refugees have a right of return. Its straightforward international law and the rights of the Palestinians were written into every resolution and declaration which led to the founding of Israel.

The Germans had no plans to give up Paris, did we negotiate with them over that?
The Israelis should give up Jerusalem, the Golan etc, why should anyone 'get over it'?
Maybe the Israelis should 'get over' a work of fiction written thousands of years ago.

Read it again... gave all the reasons why it will not happen, Golan and Jerusalem.

The Golan is a highway into northern Israel and high ground, that from a tactical prospective, would let anyone holding it dominate the north of Israel.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Whatever the reason for leaving, refugees have a right of return. Its straightforward international law and the rights of the Palestinians were written into every resolution and declaration which led to the founding of Israel.

The Germans had no plans to give up Paris, did we negotiate with them over that?
The Israelis should give up Jerusalem, the Golan etc, why should anyone 'get over it'?
Maybe the Israelis should 'get over' a work of fiction written thousands of years ago.

Germany had no plans to occupy France with Germans. If you wanted to make a WWII comparison you should have cited the Germans taking back the land they lost in WWI in their effort "unite all German speaking people". That would be a great example of the dangers of turning a blind eye whilst an aggressor continues to take land that is not deserved.

Dilbert? were you gunna link us to anything supporting your argument? Like the reason the revolts in the ME is because of Israel and not their own oppression,  or a sovereign nation of Palestine? Or is this just gunna be listed with your other "facts" that you can never prove?

and pleaae leave the Nazis out of your "argument".

AussieReaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

Plenty of blame to go around Aussie, but the bottom line is, there is no compromise to be had, especially with Islam.

Islamaphobe.

Sergeriver is gonna be pissed when he comes back to find you hijacked his catch phrase. At least try to be original with your cheap retorts.

lowing wrote:

Dilbert? were you gunna link us to anything supporting your argument? Like the reason the revolts in the ME is because of Israel and not their own oppression,  or a sovereign nation of Palestine? Or is this just gunna be listed with your other "facts" that you can never prove?

and pleaae leave the Nazis out of your "argument".

I explained it already, US support for Mubarak was predicated on Mubarak supporting Israel against the will of the Egyption people.
They didn't like being oppressed or their will being ignored, oppression came first probably.

Now they're free of Mubarak their opinion is very much against the US and Israel.
Is that what we call blowback? Seems to have happened in every single ME country the US has meddled with.

They revolted because they got tired of people going missing by the hands of the government. I think the google exec disappearing and the fb group rallying around it was the trigger.

It's nice to see dilbert has decided to speak for the whole of egypt now. Poor Egyptians can't go a month without having someone dictate for them.