well i love those brits and all, but Israel, because they take no shit from anybody and if i had to have a military ally its them. remember when jordan,syria, and egypt teamed together to beat them and got their collective butts kicked in 6 DAYS!!! besides some israel women are kinda specially when they can kick your ass....
1. I see it a bit different. It was not his anti-Americanism that helped him to win the elections, it was his opinion of starting a war, whose reason was more then questionable. You have to notice, that we're not against the USA, we're only against unnecessary wars. And words can't express how proud I am, that there aren't german soldiers down there dying for some barrels of oil.Souls wrote:
1. Germany - Gerhard Schroeder campaigned on an anti-American platform in Germany. He won because conspiratorial anti-Americanism is not a far-left or far-right phenomenon I feel it’s a mainstream view their.
2. So according to the French Saddam should have been removed as long as its not done by the Americans.
2. Of course, Saddam Hussein was terrifying the people down there, no question about that. But your government started to create reasons for a war against Iraq and the europeans just thought "Wait a moment, where is youre evidence?". And suddenly it came out, that most of your fears we're based on speculations. That's the point where we said "War without reason? Not with us!". It was too obvious, that America was keen on the oil in Iraq and as soon as the Iraq is not longer economically important for your government they'll drop it like a hot stone. Saddam Hussein and his "Weapons of Mass Destruction" we're just a plea for getting control of the oil ressources.
With kind regards
Phoenix
The US went to war for oil argument again. I remember hearing the same thing before the first gulf war. Many people claimed then that the US was going to war to get Kuwait’s oilfields. Does the US own any of Kuwait’s oilfields now? Invading Kuwait was to stop aggression. The current Iraq war is an act of self defense. One thing Europeans don't realize is that 9/11 was a major mental trauma on the average American. The majority of Americans saw Saddam as the main threat after 9/11. He was shooting at our aircraft daily. He hated the US and tried to assassinate an ex-president. He violated 12 or 13 UN resolutions on WMD's. We felt that a 9/11 with a WMD could easy happen with Saddam in power. Unlike Germany the US is the number one target for radicals Can we wait till after a WMD attack to do something? After 9/11 disarming Saddam and leaving him in power was like disarming Hitler and still leaving him in power.[THC]_Phoenix wrote:
1. I see it a bit different. It was not his anti-Americanism that helped him to win the elections, it was his opinion of starting a war, whose reason was more then questionable. You have to notice, that we're not against the USA, we're only against unnecessary wars. And words can't express how proud I am, that there aren't german soldiers down there dying for some barrels of oil.Souls wrote:
1. Germany - Gerhard Schroeder campaigned on an anti-American platform in Germany. He won because conspiratorial anti-Americanism is not a far-left or far-right phenomenon I feel it’s a mainstream view their.
2. So according to the French Saddam should have been removed as long as its not done by the Americans.
2. Of course, Saddam Hussein was terrifying the people down there, no question about that. But your government started to create reasons for a war against Iraq and the europeans just thought "Wait a moment, where is youre evidence?". And suddenly it came out, that most of your fears we're based on speculations. That's the point where we said "War without reason? Not with us!". It was too obvious, that America was keen on the oil in Iraq and as soon as the Iraq is not longer economically important for your government they'll drop it like a hot stone. Saddam Hussein and his "Weapons of Mass Destruction" we're just a plea for getting control of the oil ressources.
With kind regards
Phoenix
Last edited by Souls (2006-02-20 22:46:46)
For Superior Mind, 'Old Zealand' is in Holland - and it's just Zealand. It's where Abel Tasman came from. Strangly enough when I got my scuba diving licence, I was doing it with a guy from Zealand. Strange he had to come all the way over here to get it, as there is some pretty good diving near Zealand, it's just fucken cold!
Isn't it funny how we usually have couples of countries who will always be rivals. England has France, Australia has New Zealand, America has Canada, Mexico, Cuba, Russia...
well, everyone really.
Isn't it funny how we usually have couples of countries who will always be rivals. England has France, Australia has New Zealand, America has Canada, Mexico, Cuba, Russia...
well, everyone really.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
lmaoTyferra wrote:
Isn't it funny how we usually have couples of countries who will always be rivals. England has France, Australia has New Zealand, America has Canada, Mexico, Cuba, Russia...
well, everyone really.
I don't have any issue with any major European countries, although at times they seem a bit messed up socially(france seem to have some racial tension, the italian fascism thing is creepy, and a lot of people hate muslims/arabs for next to no reason), but they have the same problems in the US to an extent. Only countries I got issues with are the ones that have human rights violations and bad shit like that, so basicallly a lot of the third world and poorer coutnries, got some serious issues with Israel and North Korea and most dictators and the governments more than the people of places like that.
I would have to say USA or Sweedin we all know sweedish chicks are really hot
No we don't.cmsgt_one_shot wrote:
I would have to say USA or Sweedin we all know sweedish chicks are really hot
Right... Most muslims are hated for next to no reason... Uhuh...Nomer wrote:
I don't have any issue with any major European countries, although at times they seem a bit messed up socially(france seem to have some racial tension, the italian fascism thing is creepy, and a lot of people hate muslims/arabs for next to no reason), but they have the same problems in the US to an extent.
Favorites: Cuba, Any Middle Eastern country except for Israel. Any South American country.
Non-favorites: USA, Great Britain, Israel, Russia, Denmark.
Non-favorites: USA, Great Britain, Israel, Russia, Denmark.
Last edited by Refused (2006-02-21 03:07:46)
I like all countries where people are allowed to travel. A government which has to lock in its
people must have a problem.
people must have a problem.
Hm this little subdiscussion is a bit off topic, so sorry about that.
In Reply to Souls,
"Germany - Gerhard Schroeder campaigned on an anti-American platform in Germany. He won because conspiratorial anti-Americanism is not a far-left or far-right phenomenon I feel it’s a mainstream view their."
Like somebody else already said, this was viewed in the US as Anti-Americanism but when Schröder run for chancellor he said, with me there won't be any German troops in Iraq (this was at a time when there was already sufficant doubt that Saddam really had WMD). This statement about German foreign policy was how many Germans felt about the topic and most likley won Schröder the elections. Now you have to grant us the right to stay out of a war which is based on reasons we doubt to be justified.
Just remember, Collin Powel already said that his dissertation at the UN security council was an attack on his credibillity as a person (I'm not quoting since I can't find the exact words he used so correct me if I'm wrong).
It's not clear to me what the real reasons where why the US government went to war but the reasons it used to justify their intervention have been proven wrong, I think. I could go on and imply that Iraq is more danger to the US now than before cause it's become a home of terror but who knows.
"One thing Europeans don't realize is that 9/11 was a major mental trauma on the average American."
That's why we faught the war in Afghanistan alongside you. As your allies. Our troops are still stationed there. There it was obvious the government in power was a threat to security. And more of a threat to the US than to Germany.
France: I've been living there (in Paris) and I must say the french are in a kind of rivialry to the US they can't win. France has the annoying habbit of trying to show what a great nation they are. La grande nation it is. But knowing the people I rekown this has alot to do with the tradition of challeging the ones in power (they're giving their government a very very hard time). But this habbit also brought the idea of demoracy to Europe and the US as well.
"After 9/11 disarming Saddam and leaving him in power was like disarming Hitler and still leaving him in power."
This argument seems to justify any preventional war, don't you think? Its core can be applied to every arising conflict.
To close this, I just wanna add that I lived in the US (Springfield, Oregon) as well and still have friends there. When I criticise the US I don't want to offend you as Americans. And I think Americans being used to the way of political discourse shouldn't be offended or think Germans hate Americans or French hate Americans cause our governments spoke up against yours (this means if you're not with me you don't have to be against me).
Cheers
Another thing came to mind: The information about Saddams Trucks which were chemical labratories to produce WMD and being impossible to discover, that Collin Powel used to justify the invasion of Iraq (UN Security Council) initally came from the BND (the German secret service). The BND also noted the source could not be double checked or veryfied in any other way (I doubt this came through to Mr. Powel). This was also known to the German government of course so they had very good reasons to doubt the actual menace Saddam posed to the West, that were above simple anti-Americanism.
In Reply to Souls,
"Germany - Gerhard Schroeder campaigned on an anti-American platform in Germany. He won because conspiratorial anti-Americanism is not a far-left or far-right phenomenon I feel it’s a mainstream view their."
Like somebody else already said, this was viewed in the US as Anti-Americanism but when Schröder run for chancellor he said, with me there won't be any German troops in Iraq (this was at a time when there was already sufficant doubt that Saddam really had WMD). This statement about German foreign policy was how many Germans felt about the topic and most likley won Schröder the elections. Now you have to grant us the right to stay out of a war which is based on reasons we doubt to be justified.
Just remember, Collin Powel already said that his dissertation at the UN security council was an attack on his credibillity as a person (I'm not quoting since I can't find the exact words he used so correct me if I'm wrong).
It's not clear to me what the real reasons where why the US government went to war but the reasons it used to justify their intervention have been proven wrong, I think. I could go on and imply that Iraq is more danger to the US now than before cause it's become a home of terror but who knows.
"One thing Europeans don't realize is that 9/11 was a major mental trauma on the average American."
That's why we faught the war in Afghanistan alongside you. As your allies. Our troops are still stationed there. There it was obvious the government in power was a threat to security. And more of a threat to the US than to Germany.
France: I've been living there (in Paris) and I must say the french are in a kind of rivialry to the US they can't win. France has the annoying habbit of trying to show what a great nation they are. La grande nation it is. But knowing the people I rekown this has alot to do with the tradition of challeging the ones in power (they're giving their government a very very hard time). But this habbit also brought the idea of demoracy to Europe and the US as well.
"After 9/11 disarming Saddam and leaving him in power was like disarming Hitler and still leaving him in power."
This argument seems to justify any preventional war, don't you think? Its core can be applied to every arising conflict.
To close this, I just wanna add that I lived in the US (Springfield, Oregon) as well and still have friends there. When I criticise the US I don't want to offend you as Americans. And I think Americans being used to the way of political discourse shouldn't be offended or think Germans hate Americans or French hate Americans cause our governments spoke up against yours (this means if you're not with me you don't have to be against me).
Cheers
Another thing came to mind: The information about Saddams Trucks which were chemical labratories to produce WMD and being impossible to discover, that Collin Powel used to justify the invasion of Iraq (UN Security Council) initally came from the BND (the German secret service). The BND also noted the source could not be double checked or veryfied in any other way (I doubt this came through to Mr. Powel). This was also known to the German government of course so they had very good reasons to doubt the actual menace Saddam posed to the West, that were above simple anti-Americanism.
Last edited by RingPirate (2006-02-22 07:16:22)
"I could go on and imply that Iraq is more danger to the US now than before cause it's become a home of terror but who knows."
Iraq has become terrors home I agree, but I think it was more of a danger with Saddam in power then with these insurgents and terrorists we are fighting now. They are not Iraq's goverment. They can't use Iraq's oil wealth to finance terror or war like Saddam did.
"That's why we faught the war in Afghanistan alongside you. As your allies. Our troops are still stationed there"
I just wanted to say thanks. I appreciate what Germany did and is doing in Afghanistan. I watched the worlds reaction after 9/11 and it touched me deeply.
"And I think Americans being used to the way of political discourse shouldn't be offended or think Germans hate Americans or French hate Americans cause our governments spoke up against yours (this means if you're not with me you don't have to be against me). "
Its not your goverment disagreeing with us on the war that made me think anti-Americanism is high in Germany / Europe. It's all these conspiracy theories/lies that I read about coming from many Germans / Europeans. Like how we go to war for oil, or how we want to take over the world. How we did 9/11 to ourselves and the Pentagon got hit with a cruise missile. From what I understand and read on alot of forums is that alot of your fellow country men actually believe this crap. It was also based on opinion polls from Europe that showed how poorly Europeans think of the US. Didn't the BBC even do a show about this? So my basic attitude was you hate my country I'll hate yours right back.
"This argument seems to justify any preventional war, don't you think? Its core can be applied to every arising conflict."
I think you missed what I was trying to say. The two men are/were very similar in their evil ways. They started wars, commited mass murder, the list goes on and on for the both of them. I think Saddam was almost at the same level as Hitler therefore further negotiations would have bought us some time, but would not have got us to an end. Thankfully these type of leaders are the exception and not the rule. So no I don't agree that its core can be applied to every arising conflict.
Iraq has become terrors home I agree, but I think it was more of a danger with Saddam in power then with these insurgents and terrorists we are fighting now. They are not Iraq's goverment. They can't use Iraq's oil wealth to finance terror or war like Saddam did.
"That's why we faught the war in Afghanistan alongside you. As your allies. Our troops are still stationed there"
I just wanted to say thanks. I appreciate what Germany did and is doing in Afghanistan. I watched the worlds reaction after 9/11 and it touched me deeply.
"And I think Americans being used to the way of political discourse shouldn't be offended or think Germans hate Americans or French hate Americans cause our governments spoke up against yours (this means if you're not with me you don't have to be against me). "
Its not your goverment disagreeing with us on the war that made me think anti-Americanism is high in Germany / Europe. It's all these conspiracy theories/lies that I read about coming from many Germans / Europeans. Like how we go to war for oil, or how we want to take over the world. How we did 9/11 to ourselves and the Pentagon got hit with a cruise missile. From what I understand and read on alot of forums is that alot of your fellow country men actually believe this crap. It was also based on opinion polls from Europe that showed how poorly Europeans think of the US. Didn't the BBC even do a show about this? So my basic attitude was you hate my country I'll hate yours right back.
"This argument seems to justify any preventional war, don't you think? Its core can be applied to every arising conflict."
I think you missed what I was trying to say. The two men are/were very similar in their evil ways. They started wars, commited mass murder, the list goes on and on for the both of them. I think Saddam was almost at the same level as Hitler therefore further negotiations would have bought us some time, but would not have got us to an end. Thankfully these type of leaders are the exception and not the rule. So no I don't agree that its core can be applied to every arising conflict.
Last edited by Souls (2006-02-22 21:54:28)
first of i love my country and proudly am a US navy cadet but i would have to say that england is my favorite country.
To Souls,
yeah I see your point and I gotta admit there is a lot of anti-Americanism in Germany and other countries around the world. The US are the least liked country in the world because they are so powerful but also because of the sometimes arogant ways of using and showing that power by the government. That's one reason why Clinton was very popular around here, cause he seemed to listen and value his allies alot more than the current adminstration of the US.
To that statement about Powell I made in my last post: I'm not sure if that was accurate, I couldn't find it anywhere. I found this though. http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/124 … rview.html
yeah I see your point and I gotta admit there is a lot of anti-Americanism in Germany and other countries around the world. The US are the least liked country in the world because they are so powerful but also because of the sometimes arogant ways of using and showing that power by the government. That's one reason why Clinton was very popular around here, cause he seemed to listen and value his allies alot more than the current adminstration of the US.
To that statement about Powell I made in my last post: I'm not sure if that was accurate, I couldn't find it anywhere. I found this though. http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/124 … rview.html
Last edited by RingPirate (2006-02-23 15:41:49)
U all forgot something,
U are talking about a future, that hasnt hapenned,
Gime me a reason to defend a country...
i want all cards on the table by politicians, then i might think about it...
U are talking about a future, that hasnt hapenned,
Gime me a reason to defend a country...
i want all cards on the table by politicians, then i might think about it...
Canada-Berserk_Vampire wrote:
Besides you're country of course what is you're other Favorite country and one where you usually defend and hold in high regard?
You can also list wich least favorite country you can think of you already know my answer.
Just wondering what you're answers will be.
Mine would be United Kingdom i've always liked England and English people and i'm very attracted to English girls.
So what about you?
Montreal- For the women and St Catherines Street alone. I dont like how my fellow Americans crap on our Northern Friends. Especially when all thier chicks are 10's.
Club Super Sexy is the shiznit.
I will gladly give my life for the USA
Being a citizen aint like choosing a social club
I'm an American and I was stationed in Germany on the East West border.
I made a lot of friends in Germany. Very good people all in all. I can remember people giving me bread and wine while I was on the border.
So I would choose Germany as my "other" favorite country.
Least favorite would be .. ummm.. Iran I guess. Not because of the people, but because of the Government.
Could multi-national corporations be considered a country ?
I made a lot of friends in Germany. Very good people all in all. I can remember people giving me bread and wine while I was on the border.
So I would choose Germany as my "other" favorite country.
Least favorite would be .. ummm.. Iran I guess. Not because of the people, but because of the Government.
Could multi-national corporations be considered a country ?
Lets see, Australia would have to be my favourite country. I spent late december 2004 through to late January 2005 there. Sydney is a most groovy city, especially on new years.
I think the pm of Australia is a populist scare monger and the north east of Australia is redneck country. (some of the people (read: taxi drivers primarilly) are so racist)
But like I said, the area in and around Syndey has great people and is a great place to spend a holiday. I'll probably be going back at the end of this year too, will probably go to the west coast this time.
Scotland would be my second favourite country, but it's not a real country (*ducks*) so I won't include that.
New years in Edinburgh is great as is the Edinburgh festival.
South of France is nice, as is Peru. Spain is ok, it has become a tourist trap. A friend is from Italy (her parents) and absolutely hates it. From what I understand there is a big divide between the north and south of Italy in regards to wealth. (north being well off, south being poor) I've yet to go there.
Hmm, what can I say about Wales? Hilly.
I want to check out New Zealand, not been there yet.
I think the pm of Australia is a populist scare monger and the north east of Australia is redneck country. (some of the people (read: taxi drivers primarilly) are so racist)
But like I said, the area in and around Syndey has great people and is a great place to spend a holiday. I'll probably be going back at the end of this year too, will probably go to the west coast this time.
Scotland would be my second favourite country, but it's not a real country (*ducks*) so I won't include that.
New years in Edinburgh is great as is the Edinburgh festival.
South of France is nice, as is Peru. Spain is ok, it has become a tourist trap. A friend is from Italy (her parents) and absolutely hates it. From what I understand there is a big divide between the north and south of Italy in regards to wealth. (north being well off, south being poor) I've yet to go there.
Hmm, what can I say about Wales? Hilly.
I want to check out New Zealand, not been there yet.
Last edited by EvilMonkeySlayer (2006-02-28 15:19:56)
barbados
Well other than my country Canada seemed nice. The metric system freaked me out though. Some countries in Europe seem nice but never been there. I never liked France (Too ignorant and bitchy), China (They are a threat to the future of the free world), and the Middle East (Always been trouble makers). I would also like to state before all this war I never had any problem with most other countries other than the ones I stated but with this Anti-American BS I really don't trust other countries anymore. If they said they were against Bush it wouldn't bother me but when they say they are against the country and government then its personal. Finally I would glady take up arms to defend my country it has done so much for me and my family.
Last edited by Renegade2k9 (2006-02-27 23:06:15)
=Renegade2k9]]
Have u ever kill any1 renegade?
After u did,theres no way back...
Have u ever kill any1 renegade?
After u did,theres no way back...
I lived in the UK for 3 years, and been back for several visits. Loved it. More importantly than what country I would defend (since I would defend most allies in a cause I believed in), is the consideration of whether I would live there or not. I would live in the UK any time. Great people, great place.
That is called 'baiting' and you will offend Americans who have never expressed any sort of 'USA #1' view when you do that. Given how indescriminately you argued and spewed anti-US rhetoric before, I find this revelation a bit hard to believe. I suspect it is due to the warnings you have been given on this forum.Berserk_Vampire wrote:
...what i hate more is the people who think United States is number #1 type mentality and how the rest of the world doesnt matter...then...i say lets destroy the U.S...
No way back? To where? From where?El pistolero7 wrote:
=Renegade2k9]]
Have u ever kill any1 renegade?
After u did,theres no way back...