BF2S Forums Australian politics thread.

many who didn't understand their role in ideological framework of a nation at war, yes. and many more who did understand that role fared very well under stalin - one even got a nobel prize for literature.

wow you are one confused person. you brag about some soviet writer being given a nobel but then dismiss pasternak, who was a marxist-leninist and took an active role in the revolution, and who was also notably given a nobel prize but BANNED FROM ACCEPTING IT.

so is the nobel prize a brag-worthy sign of recognition or not? because the way the soviet union treated one of its best writers (in pasternak) is nothing short of a national disgrace. you can't have it both ways, shahter. 'oh, stalin was so great, this writer was even awarded a nobel prize!' lmao.

It was part of a wider joint Australian special forces-US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) campaign targeting illicit drug operations that were financing the Taliban insurgency.

"We had done the drug raid, the Aussies actually did a pretty impressive job, wrangling all the prisoners up," Josh said.

Well there's the first mistake. Stopping heroin smuggling is important and all but what was the end goal of this raid in the first place? To charge some Afghans with drug dealing in their own country and legal system? Was a special forces air assault really necessary to give some Afghan guy 2 years in prison before the Taliban releases them in our peace deal? The whole thing was stupid. The fact that some guy got offed by the Australians should be the least controversial part of the story.

Because australia has a long and storied history of bootlicking america.

uziq wrote:

why the fuck are aussie special forces on the other side of the world murdering junkies?

Its a mystery isn't it?

Why would western nations send their best young men half way round the world to prevent Afghans from producing opium, while at the same time allowing Israelis to produce all they want, use the medical system to cram hapless Americans full of opioids and remit the profits back to Israel?

Jokes on you my granddad served in the wehrmacht

Last edited by Larssen (2020-10-21 02:14:06)

Yes dilbert. I grew up around the border region between liège and aachen. Most my family is/was germans.

Last edited by Larssen (2020-10-21 02:19:50)

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

why the fuck are aussie special forces on the other side of the world murdering junkies?

Its a mystery isn't it?

Why would western nations send their best young men half way round the world to prevent Afghans from producing opium, while at the same time allowing Israelis to produce all they want, use the medical system to cram hapless Americans full of opioids and remit the profits back to Israel?

are the sacklers 'israelis'? i thought they were american-british.

Chinese state media has warned "Canberra only has itself to blame" in an editorial published on China Daily.

It comes after a Communist Party tabloid seemed to confirm unprecedented suspensions this week on seven Australian export products to China, including wine and coal, in a multi-billion-dollar blow.

The editorial accused Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison of "rash participation in the US administration's attempts to contain China".

"Canberra should realise it will get nothing from Washington in return for its collusion in its schemes, while Australia will pay tremendously for its misjudgement," the editorial said.

"With Australia mired in its worst recession in decades, it should steer clear of Washington's brinkmanship with China before it is too late.

"To put it simply, if Canberra continues to go out of its way to be inimical to China, it's choosing [of] sides will be a decision Australia will come to regret as its economy will only suffer further pain as China will have no choice but to look elsewhere if the respect necessary for cooperation is not forthcoming."

The import ban reportedly targets Australian lobsters, sugar, wine, coal, barley, timber and copper ore and concentrate, which would be a $5-6 billion blow to the value of Australian exports.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-06/ … n/12857988

Someone had to stand up to China, not sure why Australia had to go it alone. We'll find out who our friends are I guess.

as i've already mentioned elsewhere, china has declared a commitment to carbon neutrality in the next few decades, anyway.

probably won't be fast or soon enough from a realistic perspective, but the political werewithal is there.

china is probably the best-equipped state to pivot from one sort of economy to the next. certainly much easier to force the move from carbon/fossil-fuels to green technologies when you have a largely centrally controlled economy and state. the west's model of 'let's wait for market innovations to solve the ecological crisis' is not responding nearly fast enough. not until all the shale and tar sands have been rinsed will govts get the idea, methinks.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/10/17/gr … ope-japan/

maybe australia can start sending its young to china to work as nail technicians and masseuses?

Last edited by uziq (2020-11-08 07:44:42)

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n … rt-alleges

australian special forces responsible for murder of 39 civilians.

you know that when even the americans don't want to work with you any more, that you've got something seriously wrong.

Special forces were responsible for dozens of unlawful killings, the vast majority of which involved prisoners, and were deliberately covered up.

    Thirty-nine Afghans were unlawfully killed in 23 incidents, either by special forces or at the instruction of special forces.

    None of the killings took place in the heat of battle, and they all occurred in circumstances which, if accepted by a jury, would constitute the war crime of murder.

    All the victims were either non-combatants or were no longer combatants.

    A total of 25 perpetrators have been identified either as principals or accessories. Some are still serving in the ADF.

In all cases, the report finds it “was or should have been plain that the person killed was a non-combatant”. The vast majority of victims had been captured and were under control, giving them the protection under international law.

Some of the incidents described in the report are deeply troubling. Evidence suggests junior soldiers were instructed by their superiors to execute prisoners in cold blood as part of a “blooding” process to give them their first kill.

Last edited by uziq (2020-11-19 01:42:46)

of course war is all about murder but there have been rules of engagement and a 'code' to warfare for time immemorial. this cannot be news to you if you studied international relations, really, from the professionalization of armies onwards in the 17th and 18th centuries.

plus it's a bit hard for the west to justify its 'moral crusade' against 'islamist extremism' when it sends a bunch of impressionable young men abroad to slaughter civilians for bloodsport.

you can read some of the individual reports and studies about aussie special forces. this is not a case of 'complex modern warfare'. it's a case of an out-of-control special forces unit who were routinely executing old men or 'suspected informants' etc pretty much wantonly. the US rangers and UK special forces both reported this behaviour and warned about their conduct. if it was just the ordinary confusion of fighting an insurgency, it probably wouldn't be complained about and greeted with distaste by fellow soldiers.

why are you so eager to exonerate soldiers who have been condemned by their own official government inquiry?

Last edited by uziq (2020-11-19 03:00:57)

the entire paradigm of such weapons is 'precision armaments'. of course civilians still get killed but it's at least notionally about targeting enemy combatants, not murdering innocent civilians.

there is a debate to be had about the ethics of modern warfare, for sure, and the issue is much deeper than just this australian case. drone warfare, precision missiles, etc. do raise natural questions about the nature and ethics of killing.

but aussie special forces were literally executing captured prisoners in 'initiation rituals'. it's straight-up culpable murder.