BF2S Forums Juba, Iraqi insurgent sniper.

Marconius wrote:

And yet, FeloniousMonk, our forces aren't fighting American snipers...so the whole American ideaology of a "proper" sniper's role in combat kind of goes out the window.

Not really.  Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the Iraqis understand the role of a sniper in the west (as defined by myself or FeloniousMonk or anyone else) and rejected it.

If they are trying to wound troops to tie up other troops in Iraq, they are fighting a losing battle.  That tactic is only really useful in a high intensity conflict, which Iraq isn't.  In a low intensity conflict, US troops have the luxury of dealing with the wounded and continuing with the mission later.  Casualties would have to be on a massive scale to interfere with US operations because those operations are LOW INTENSITY.  If those troops were all engaged in a large scale battle across a large front, with essential timetables and missions, wounding troops could have a nasty effect.  As it is now, the troops just take care of their buddy, and drive on when that is complete.  The mission can wait, so a few snipers don't have very much of an effect, tactically speaking.

Personally I think they understand the role of a sniper as I defined it VERY well  - morale killer.  They are probably spreading this crap (which I still think is BS, by the way) of some great arab sniper to sow fear.  The video is part of it.  Unfortunately, as I said earlier, for a sniper to be effective at breaking morale, he has to be a good shot.  This is the part they can't seem to get, and it is essential.  When they miss a lot, they get laughed at.

Anyway, more simply than that: Snipers are not an efficient way to cause casualties.  They take much too long to make a kill (patience is as necessary a skill for snipers as marksmanship), and so they don't make many kills over time.  If their primary purpose (as you seem to suggest) is to cause large numbers of casualties, they are a wasted resource.  There are more efficient ways to do it.

Last edited by whittsend (2006-02-01 11:48:17)

Marconius wrote:

And yet, FeloniousMonk, our forces aren't fighting American snipers...so the whole American ideaology of a "proper" sniper's role in combat kind of goes out the window.

Untrue. Snipers in every military of every nation have always followed those doctrines. THe sniper's role is to provide behind-enemy-lines information and to disrupt morale and communications by eliminating high profile and crucial targets.

Insurgents are not stupid and they're not untrained. They understand the concepts of war just as well as anyone else and any good sniper is going to follow the same goals. Wounding is absolutely USELESS for a sniper. If you want to wound, send in a platoon. Snipers are one shot, one kill.

whittsend wrote:

Anyway, more simply than that: Snipers are not an efficient way to cause casualties.  They take much too long to make a kill (patience is as necessary a skill for snipers as marksmanship), and so they don't make many kills over time.

Exactly. Good snipers will scout and track their prey for days at a time, sometimes even weeks. Makes no point to waste all that time as well as a bullet for a mere wound.

Last edited by FeloniousMonk (2006-02-01 12:25:26)

Watch it bustamante8151.  I will remind you that this is the Debate and Serious Talk forum, and it doesn't pertain to BF2 at all.

I don't care what military tours you've taken, and you've obviously missed the rest of Nehil's post.  Respond to his original question and points, or don't respond at all.

And you Marconius are obviously from SF Bay area. Don't even attempt to take a scolding tone with me by referring to my "military tours", not only that I'm 9 yrs older than you. You haven't done anything with yourself or your life to take any tone other that of a thankful citizen. Thank me that you can wear your birkenstocks and twill belt while you ride your trollie to work while SOME OF US are over there sacrificing.  BTW get a hair cut and shave that hideous beard. Your look like Napolean Dynamite. Your 21, try and look it.

As for Nehils other post, I'm not a Nehil watch dog... He started this thread knowing the type criticism he (or she) would get. So unless you are an admin here on this site, YOU WATCH IT. Before I put your picture on this site... tough guy.

Oh wow... you are an admin. You are sooooooo kool! LOL....

I didn't see the forum this was posted in. OBVIOUSLY THIS IS A SERIOUS PLACE FOR ADULT CONVERSATION.

Ahhh armageddon
If I understood you right you are or were in the US army yourself. Stuff like that is making me vote "Yes" in the "Rednecks, poor people and hotheads join the military" vote. Shame on you!

No not army.... Marine; it's ok you are forgiven. So is it your position that the military shouldn't have the sheltered coattail riding rich kids? If the military was as full of rednecks, poor people, and hotheads as you think this war would have been over a long time ago. I take it you are one of the above (sheltered, rich kid, mummy's wittle boy)

That Juba's a twat he picks on easy targets, and films it. not very noble at all.

I must say I am confused by Horseman's last post...

Last edited by atlvolunteer (2006-02-01 14:48:22)

Your service does not grant you any permission to personally attack Nehil, nor myself as a "Birkenstock, trill-belt wearing hippie."  And yes, I indeed AM a forum admin, so please follow the site rules and pay attention to what forum you are in (Level-Headed conversation).

And Horseman, I'd appreciate it if you stopped mis-quoting me and/or editing what I have said.

Ahhh thats what makes this country so great! It does grant me permission to do so. Not saying your choice of "sitting this one out " makes you any less of a man (I sense envy in the way you refer to my service). Not everyone is cut out to do certain things. No fault of your own. Just for the record I never said anything about being a hippie, maybe implied it, but that didn't role off of my fingertips. Guilty conscious? Stand proud in those sandals... hell you gotta stand for something right?

Hey armageddon! You couldn't see the bandwagon because your head was on his lap

This is amusing... please keep them coming!

I was over there this past summer and i don't ever remember hearing about a "Juba".  I was north of baghdad but i don't know i think it might be around the same area this character was in.  As for the sniper i saw alot of shots that were pathetic.  I will admit watching this film did infuriate me and if nothing else I wanted to go over there to kill more of the bastards.

on another note isn't it strange how you can read a stat like " 18 dead as XXX responds to Violence in XXX. "

But seeing one mans death effects us so greatly. Hitler said " One will be mourned, 1000 is just a statistic. "

I guess he had something there.

ps cant I please  do the quote thing Please oh please

monkeyhunkeytunkey wrote:

this video makes me sick how that sick basterd kills with no moral!

Hmm,I think that guy has a whole big bunch of moral,maybe just not mine or yours....

If you were an insurgent you would probably do the same thing,or the even worse thing - suicidebomber.
But hey,derka derka,it's Jihad..