Call them what you like, litertards, whoever sets this shit for schoolkids to read.
Fuck Israel
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
- +640|3936
My sister's high school once assigned her an Ayn Rand novel. The person in the English department who assigned it must have been convinced they were a self made man who never took a government handout.
politicians? high-school english courses aren't designed by people from the world of letters. this may surprise you.Dilbert_X wrote:
Call them what you like, litertards, whoever sets this shit for schoolkids to read.
What the hell is a 'litertard' anyway.
dilbert thinks the literati are a conspiracy out to get him and make him feel small with their carefully targeted snobbery and cultivation. kind of like how david icke views reptiles. for some reason he thinks their reach is so malign and ubiquitous that dons in tweed and/or berets are setting school curricula. 'the greats' are just a course of instruction set-up by brawny anglican christian boarding schools and latterly state school doo-gooders to try and 'instil values' in the youth. they are not chosen by aesthetes.
Not at all, although the snobbery is tiresome, as was having to sit through three years of excruciating shit.
I just wonder how it is people achieve the exact opposite of what they supposedly set out to, when they're supposedly smart and educated.
I just wonder how it is people achieve the exact opposite of what they supposedly set out to, when they're supposedly smart and educated.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2016-03-22 01:32:38)
Fuck Israel
what is that in reference to?
once again, literature snobs and art lovers are not setting school curricula. most of the stuff that litterateurs love best would be decried as amoral or decadent or something. the purpose of classic literature in the schoolroom is to inculcate values. the opposite of what art appreciation is about, actually.
once again, literature snobs and art lovers are not setting school curricula. most of the stuff that litterateurs love best would be decried as amoral or decadent or something. the purpose of classic literature in the schoolroom is to inculcate values. the opposite of what art appreciation is about, actually.
Mostly, yes. "Great books" in the classroom replaced biblical parables for teaching culturally approved morality.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
hence why most of the classics you get in school, pre-university level, will actually be deeply conservative in their outlook (which is very often reflected in their form and style, hence turgid and monotonous victorian tomes making an appearance). they are intrinsically conservative because they reflect what 'proper' establishment society considers 'the good'. that is diametrically opposed to what a university level arts course, or a literature don or whatever, will be interested in. they are interested in questioning values and challenging assumptions. you can't have your stereotypes both ways. one minute dilbert is decrying 'lesbian propagandists' and 'campus marxists' and the next he's talking about how all literature fans are out to snub him with their dickens and hardy.
Here's an interesting article showing one just one facet of the giant heap of mess US education is in:
Who Should Decide What High School Kids Are Allowed to Read? -The Atlantic
So parents want to be the ones setting curriculum, damned be librarian recommendations?
I'd feel more comfortable if the 'literati' had dominant say in what books should be a part of school curricula than leaving it up to parents, politicians, and lobbyists, but this is a country that allows private schools to impose religious indoctrination as required material. We've got a long way to go.
Who Should Decide What High School Kids Are Allowed to Read? -The Atlantic
So parents want to be the ones setting curriculum, damned be librarian recommendations?
How the hell is a book going to turn people into lesbians? I suppose it shouldn't come as a surprise that in a country where people fight tooth and nail for their right to hump loaded weapons into supermarkets (preferably in plain sight, if they can force the issue) that some parents would prefer books with killing to ones featuring tremendously more controversial 'gayness.'a parent wrote:
"We expected to see classics like Of Mice and Men or Lord Of The Flies"
I'd feel more comfortable if the 'literati' had dominant say in what books should be a part of school curricula than leaving it up to parents, politicians, and lobbyists, but this is a country that allows private schools to impose religious indoctrination as required material. We've got a long way to go.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Secondary school English is about brainwashing and dulling the minds of kids so they accept the establishment?uziq wrote:
hence why most of the classics you get in school, pre-university level, will actually be deeply conservative in their outlook (which is very often reflected in their form and style, hence turgid and monotonous victorian tomes making an appearance). they are intrinsically conservative because they reflect what 'proper' establishment society considers 'the good'.
Thanks for clearing that up, you've actually enriched my life.
Those are two different issues, at different levels of schooling, on different sides of the world, in different millennia.one minute dilbert is decrying 'lesbian propagandists' and 'campus marxists' and the next he's talking about how all literature fans are out to snub him with their dickens and hardy.
A+ for effort, D- for accomplishment - that makes for an average of A+ under the current educational system....
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2016-03-23 02:00:51)
Fuck Israel
all secondary education is about instilling values. in the case of posh schools or public schools or whatever, explicitly so – it's in the fucking name ('public' as in 'preparing for civil service'). and state school provision and curricula are nothing but denuded versions of their Victorian models (and devised by senior politicos and civil service twonks who went to them). so yes, it's all about instilling certain virtues. that isn't limited to literature. all of the humanities and 'liberal arts' in general are devised with this broad humanist ethos. and why else do you think teachers have you pounding the sod every Thursday morning on the rugby pitch? hint: it's not because they like you to have a fun game. even school sports were originally devised to inculcate quasi-military values. derp derp.Dilbert_X wrote:
Secondary school English is about brainwashing and dulling the minds of kids so they accept the establishment?uziq wrote:
hence why most of the classics you get in school, pre-university level, will actually be deeply conservative in their outlook (which is very often reflected in their form and style, hence turgid and monotonous victorian tomes making an appearance). they are intrinsically conservative because they reflect what 'proper' establishment society considers 'the good'.
Thanks for clearing that up, you've actually enriched my life.Those are two different issues, at different levels of schooling, on different sides of the world, in different millennia.one minute dilbert is decrying 'lesbian propagandists' and 'campus marxists' and the next he's talking about how all literature fans are out to snub him with their dickens and hardy.
A+ for effort, D- for accomplishment - that makes for an average of A+ under the current educational system....
So it isn't about learning, developing, having your mind expanded, being educated etc, it is just an intellectual bludgeoning process? That's interesting to know, because that's exactly what it felt like.
I'd like to know how your arguments apply to other subjects, I can see how it can be achieved in English, not so much Physics, Biology, Pottery etc.
I'd like to know how your arguments apply to other subjects, I can see how it can be achieved in English, not so much Physics, Biology, Pottery etc.
Fuck Israel
cannot believe I'm explaining to a grown adult that a huge function of education is to socialise individuals into good citizens. why do you think the state bothers to educate people at all?
There are different ways, more intelligent ways than beating people around the head with dreary crap.
Fuck Israel
tell that to my algebra teacher or the scores of maths/sciences teachers who taught from a textbook with rote exercises. stop pretending that pre-university level education in anything is some enlightened exercise of the intellect. it's about passing exams and getting you to the next stage in the most purely functional way. and all that is taught to you is taught with a view to making you useful and amenable to society. why am I having to point this out to you? all I am essentially saying is that the topics taught on high school level courses are chosen by government policy works with utility and the prevailing ideology in mind. wow such a revelation. stop being such a moron because you didn't like hardy. haven't the intervening four decades softened your whines?
I don't think they're completely dedicated to churning out "useful people." If that were the case, practical courses wouldn't struggle to stay in the curriculum, things like money management would be oh-so emphasized to decrease the tax burden an impoverished population imposes, and the NCLB Act wouldn't have had such lackluster implementation. But that's just the US for example. I'm not very familiar with how things are in the UK.
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
- +640|3936
I don't think there is any underlining philosophy for education in the U.S. Every local city, county, and state has their own elected officials who put in whatever policy and standards the local idiot parents want. And the whims of parents can change year to year. The people who make it on the boards are from the local political machines instead of the Princeton University Education department. The department of education spends more money propping up the financial balances schools in the ghetto than they do investing in practical and speciality courses. The DoE still struggles to desegregate schools never mind enforce national standards that promote a specific agenda. What a lousy political system federalism is.
Local town districts have very little say. Curricula are largely defined by the textbook manufacturers and standardized testing companies who in turn take their cues from state and federal governments.
The US education system was largely laid out by John Dewey to be a scientific "get child from point a to b as efficiently as possible while making him a good citizen" archetype. Masters in education courses all use him as the foundation.
The US education system was largely laid out by John Dewey to be a scientific "get child from point a to b as efficiently as possible while making him a good citizen" archetype. Masters in education courses all use him as the foundation.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
- +640|3936
What masters in education courses did you take?Jay wrote:
Local town districts have very little say. Curricula are largely defined by the textbook manufacturers and standardized testing companies who in turn take their cues from state and federal governments.
The US education system was largely laid out by John Dewey to be a scientific "get child from point a to b as efficiently as possible while making him a good citizen" archetype. Masters in education courses all use him as the foundation.
I seem to recall stating that I have about a dozen friends who are teachers at some point. Maybe I'm mistaken. Either way, you're doing a very good job of proving once again that anyone can graduate from Rutgers.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
- SuperJail Warden
- Gone Forever
- +640|3936
So you took zero graduate classes in education.Jay wrote:
I seem to recall stating that I have about a dozen friends who are teachers at some point. Maybe I'm mistaken. Either way, you're doing a very good job of proving once again that anyone can graduate from Rutgers.
Thanks for clearing that up.
How is that even relevant? Weren't you a history major? Shouldn't an understanding of the founding principles of the American public education system have been part of your curriculum?
Try "Anti-intellectualism in America" for a good primer. 5 stars
Try "Anti-intellectualism in America" for a good primer. 5 stars
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
What is a muppet but a miserable pile of fluff.