Pages: 1 2

 

2006-01-11 08:28:14
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7058|Cologne, Germany

the so called "war on terror" has been going on for a while now, obviously with mixed results. Some will argue that it is essentially a success, as attacks on US soil have stopped. Others will argue that the conflict simply has been transferred abroad, and that US citizens ( Marines ) are still dieing.

does the US administration have a plan/strategy where this is going and how it is going to end ? will it ever end ? Can the war on terror be won with conventional military forces ? can it be won at all ?

discuss.

My stance: I don't think the US governmant really has a cohesive strategy for the "war on terror". They go from attack to attack and simply react to what the terrorists do. Moreover, they use military forces to fight a NGO multinational terrorist organization, obviously with limited success. No offense towards the hard-working men and women in Iraq, but last time I checked the Marines were no anti-terrorist unit.

the war on terror cannot be won with military forces. history shows that there are only two ways to deal with terrorists:

1. wipe them all off the face of the earth, together with their families
2. try to find the motivation of the terrorists and see what you can do about that ( I can hear xanthpi homing in on that one )

try to keep this serious, please.
2006-01-11 08:51:47
atlvolunteer
PKMMMMMMMMMM
+27|6989|Atlanta, GA USA
I'm not sure that the war on terror can ever be won or will ever end.  IMO, the only practical way to win this "war" is
2. try to find the motivation of the terrorists and see what you can do about that
I don't see how this can happen.  I don't know what the west (and the US in particular) can do to eliminate all hate directed towards us by some muslims.
One thing that bothers me is that it doesn't seem like figures in the Muslim world are making any effort to curb terrorism.  You almost never hear Imams (or muslims in general) decrying terrorist attacks.  I would think that they would have the most influence in eliminating the need for a war on terror.
2006-01-11 21:44:56
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7054
Sure it can End. Give the Palitinians their land back. Stops on a DIME !

Can we win it? we did win it. Our goal was to send them underground, lower substantialy their abillity to operate comunicate and keep them so off balance they cant strike us again. They haven't been back to NYC since 911.

They should..

1 wait for another US President who's best response it to masturbate.

2 Go after Countries who are of weeker will and see if they can get more to Bail Like Spain.
                     
3 Strike at Exclusively Hollywood and the American mass media so they get a fair portrayal in Media and NEWS.
2006-01-12 01:42:30
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7058|Cologne, Germany

Horseman77 wrote:

Can we win it? we did win it. Our goal was to send them underground, lower substantialy their abillity to operate comunicate and keep them so off balance they cant strike us again. They haven't been back to NYC since 911.
so what you are essentially saying is that US marines who die abroad is better than US civilians who die at home ?

Well, I guess everybody defines "winning" differently...

I can only speculate on the terrorists motives, but i doubt it has something to do with Israel. Maybe it is a contributing  factor, but would it stop if we handed that country over to the palestinians ? And where would the jews be living then ?

How come I have never heard Osama say "give us back the holy land, and all this stops on a dime" ?

Blaming all of this on the conflict between Israel and its neighbours is too easy. Israel exists since 1947. But the attacks on US soil didn't start until the early 1990's and Al Quaeda didn't really surface until 09/11. There must be more to the issue.
2006-01-12 02:15:27
2ndLt.Tucker
If you can read this, your already dead
+33|6900|Stillwater, Ok
The "war on terror" will be almost impossible to stop.  There are consistent recruitment for these cells world wide.  Although eliminating the master mind Osoma and freezing all their assets would definately slow this to almost a complete hault.  Funny thing is that the main reason Osoma targets the US is cuase he is pissed we were in Suadi Arabia during the first Gulf War.  He was exiled from Suadi and the Sudan later on and thats when he started his personal crusade against the west primarily the US.  Still eleminate the teaching of kill anyone who is not muslim would end terrorism.
  As for the Marines being killed...your forgetting the other branches who are constantly in harms way including the Army, Air Force, and Navy.  But we also took an oath to give our lives in order to protect our citizens and those unable to defend themselves.  So in a sense yes its better for those who volunteered to fight to die than 10 yr old kids who haven't even begun to see what life has to offer.  While alot of us are young i knew full well what i was doing when i took that oath.  If i die next year on my deployment i know what it was for.
2006-01-13 10:04:43
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7054
Horseman77

     Can we win it? we did win it. Our goal was to send them underground, lower substantially their ability to operate communicate and keep them so off balance they cant strike us again. They haven't been back to NYC since 911.


B.Schuss

      so what you are essentially saying is that US marines who die abroad is better than US civilians who die at home ?

Horseman77

YES I am saying just that. They are not innocent civilians. They are armed volunteers, Fighters who kick ass, every once in a while some smelly fuk will get lucky and hurt, maim or kill one. It is a terrible loss but Better.

B.Schuss

Well, I guess everybody defines "winning" differently...
Horseman77

apparently lol

Fill me in!  when Japan was using its devastating Kamikaze Suicide attacks. They were winning or Losing ? ,  At the End of WWII This was our justification to quit and let Japan Win? I wish you could have been there to tell us we were losing. we didn/t know it. We are ignorant and uneducated Americans. So  fill me in on " Your Definition of Winning " will you ? please ?

B.Schuss

I can only speculate on the terrorists motives, but I doubt it has something to do with Israel.

Horseman77

You are kidding Right ? " Something to do with Israel " tell me your being Rye.

B. Schuss

but would it stop if we handed that country over to the Palestinians ? And where would the jews be living then ?

Horseman77 

I don't know,  maybe where they came from before 1947. If anyone had bothered to ask" where will the Palestinians be living ? " there would not be half the WARS we have there. I please dont give me a "they always lived ther line, 91 percenct imagrated after 1947.

B. Schuss

How come I have never heard Osama say "give us back the holy land, and all this stops on a dime" ?
 
Blaming all of this on the conflict between Israel and its neighbors is too easy.

Horeman77

Yes its very easy. Try substituting the phrase  " Its Clear Cut "

B. Schuss

Israel exists since 1947. But the attacks on US soil didn't start until the early 1990's and Al Quaeda didn't really surface until 09/11.

Horseman77

Yes  Al Quaeda is new. A new Blight on the Earth. old protest/resistance groups used to through rocks at tanks. They used to seize an Airliner and hold it for a few day and release it. It didn't work out for them. That's why 911 was so effective. Everyone on the plane thought not this siht again. 3 days of terrible in convenience.  no one knew it would be different. Its time to get deadly serious with these people but don't tell me you " don't know why they hate us." or "Why they are fighting " That's a joke. we are all at war for israel again.
2006-01-13 10:21:51
Rapscallion
Member
+0|6896
Just my 2pence/cents etc.

IMO its got a lot more to do with US foriegn policy over the last 40-50 years than just Isreal. (though obviously Israeal plays a part in it)

Which boiled down to support anyone who either A) Has lots of oil or B) Is against the same people the US is against i.e. communists.

So the US is responsible for proping up an awful lot of Rightwing dictators and despots who basicaly shat all over their people with indirect or direct US support. That sort of thing pisses off a lot of people.

A fine example of this sort of behaviour in the 50's Iraq had a democraticaly elected leftwing government, which was undermined and brought down by the US who helped install a new US friendly regime (the Bathist Party).

Osama is another US creation (with the help of the then Pakistani dictator General Zier)


In answer the the original question you cannot win a "war on terrorism" whatever that is by force. You can only remove the greivences that feed the ranks of organisations like Al Queeda.

Last edited by Rapscallion (2006-01-13 10:40:22)

2006-01-13 10:36:16
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7054

Rapscallion wrote:

Just my 2pence/cents etc.

IMO its got a lot more to do with US foriegn policy over the last 30-40 years than just Isreal. (though obviously Israeal plays a part in it)

Which boiled down to support anyone who either A) Has lots of oil or B) Is against the same people the US is against i.e. communists.

So the US is responsible for proping up an awful lot of Rightwing dictators and despots who basicaly shat all over their people with indirect or direct US support. That sort of thing pisses off a lot of people.

A fine example of this sort of behaviour in the 50's Iraq had a democraticaly elected leftwing government, which was undermined and brought down by the US who helped install a new US friendly regime (the Bathist Party).

Osama is another US creation (with the help of the then Pakistani dictator General Zier)
I am with you on this its time to try and undo some of our mistakes. We have  " Proped up "  a lot of Govermants to the detriment of others

This one paticular goverment we created and " proped up "  is a detriment to ourselves as well,
2006-01-13 10:56:12
Rapscallion
Member
+0|6896
Unfortunatly thats much easier to say than do. It would be a long hard job to turn the situation around these sores have been festering a long time. Also the current administration in the US has no interest in such an approach.

Marching into a country to depose someone that you supported for the best part of 30 years does not reverse the  wrongs of putting them there in the first place. It only breeds more resentment and distrust. Especially when the country involved is the world second biggest oil resource and had nothing to do with the "war on terrorism" in the first place.

Last edited by Rapscallion (2006-01-13 11:01:44)

2006-01-13 11:05:46
[PHPR]-SpecialOps
Member
+18|6999|Your six is my twelve
I would say that this war isn't won yet, but we have definitly won some key battles.  I think that it is a win, in and of it self, that we kicked Saddam Hussein of his throne, this alone saved (in theory) a million or mroe iraqi citizens from torture and murder.  If i remember correctly, Saddam already murdered 300,000 ish people for his pleasure, and we (the coalition) stopped the cycle of death from spiriling ever lower.

Will we ever be completely free from terror, I doubt it.  There will always be those who are raised in ignorance, and know nothing but hate.  But we can minimize their forces, stop them from causing mass destruction, and lower their numbers, the war on terror, will be one that is faught until all men on planet earth are taught to think freely and clearly, without need of violence.
2006-01-13 11:17:26
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7054

Rapscallion wrote:

Unfortunatly thats much easier to say than do. It would be a long hard job to turn the situation around these sores have been festering a long time. Also the current administration in the US has no interest in such an approach.

the current administration in the US has no interest in such an approach. Its intrest are protecting US
Citizens.



Marching into a country to depose someone that you supported for the best part of 30 years does not reverse the  wrongs of putting them there in the first place. It only breeds more resentment and distrust. Especially when the country involved is the world second biggest oil resource and had nothing to do with the "war on terrorism" in the first place.
We found traing camps there complete with Airliners to pratice in, Did you forget that part?

They haven't been back in 4 years so I think we hit the right people. 

I also have a sneaking feeling that they aren't keeping your up to date on Intell,  I mean did you get some satilite photos from the CIA lately ?I doubt it. 40 years from now we will learn why and how and where. Till then we all just guess.
2006-01-13 11:21:20
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6913|NJ
Al Quaeda was the controling government in Saudi before they got themself removed by the 9/11 attacks, everyone needs to watch the history channel. So after that they went into hiding, right now we're going to call the Iraq war a win this year and probably move into Iran. You can tell this by the spin that the news is putting on the Iran nuclear program, also why do we(the american's) always go after people who we expect have WMD's and when countries(North Korea) say we got 4 nukes we back off. 

Also I would like a defining defination of the word "Terrorist"
2006-01-13 11:26:30
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7054

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Al Quaeda was the controling government in Saudi before they got themself removed by the 9/11 attacks, everyone needs to watch the history channel. So after that they went into hiding, right now we're going to call the Iraq war a win this year and probably move into Iran. You can tell this by the spin that the news is putting on the Iran nuclear program, also why do we(the american's) always go after people who we expect have WMD's and when countries(North Korea) say we got 4 nukes we back off. 

Also I would like a defining defination of the word "Terrorist"
Menacam Began (Israel PM) A former Terrorist ( Hotel Bomber ) Himself. Was Qouted as saying

" a Terrorist is a Patriot without an Air Force "
2006-01-13 12:22:18
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6913|NJ
LOL, that's what I mean, by us over staying our welcome over in Iraq, is that making us Terrorist?  It's very obvious that the Iraq people don't want us there anymore and are becoming increasingly worried about our presense there.

America at the present time is no longer an invader, we are an occuping force.
2006-01-13 12:38:04
atlvolunteer
PKMMMMMMMMMM
+27|6989|Atlanta, GA USA
The problem is that we can't just pack up and leave now that Hussein has been ousted.  We can't leave Iraq until a stable government has been established.
2006-01-13 12:47:21
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6913|NJ
The only stable government over there is Iran, doesn't sound like a safe bet to me.
2006-01-13 17:00:49
Rapscallion
Member
+0|6896
They haven't been back in 4 years so I think we hit the right people. 

I also have a sneaking feeling that they aren't keeping your up to date on Intell,  I mean did you get some satilite photos from the CIA lately ?I doubt it. 40 years from now we will learn why and how and where. Till then we all just guess.
Saddam used to persecute muslim extremists, why would he team up with them, more to the point why would they team up with him. Remember he used to be a good friend of the US before Kuwait. (another dodgy dictatorship)

Last edited by Rapscallion (2006-01-13 17:02:15)

2006-01-13 21:48:27
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7054

Rapscallion wrote:

They haven't been back in 4 years so I think we hit the right people. 

I also have a sneaking feeling that they aren't keeping your up to date on Intell,  I mean did you get some satilite photos from the CIA lately ?I doubt it. 40 years from now we will learn why and how and where. Till then we all just guess.
Saddam used to persecute muslim extremists, why would he team up with them, more to the point why would they team up with him. Remember he used to be a good friend of the US before Kuwait. (another dodgy dictatorship)
A good friend ? what do you base this on ? We didnt kill him or attack his country?.

We didnt kill Krushchev [sp] Was he a good friend then also ?
2006-01-13 21:57:58
Gunny_Prixxon
Member
+0|6929|atlanta
As a 3 tour Afghanistan veteran and a B.A. in History all I have to say is that the war on terror is unwinnable.  Terrorists have been around for thousands of years starting with the Judean Peoples Front and the People's Front of Judea back during the Roman Empire. 

The best we (the world!) can do is repress the terrorists and keep them off balance and running.  Even if we killed every Al Quaida (sp), someone else would appear...

Personally, I think the bird flu may potentially be a bigger threat...
2006-01-13 23:43:53
xX[Elangbam]Xx
Member
+107|6915
This is what I predict. Bush will keep pushing the war, China will sneak up and help us out for a while and destroy the insurgents and terrorists for the meantime. Then when peace talks gets set up China will wipe out America....just a thought
2006-01-14 03:48:47
2ndLt.Tucker
If you can read this, your already dead
+33|6900|Stillwater, Ok
China won't wipe out America....we have to much advanced warning when it come troop movement.  And their economy depends on us buying there shit.  They kill us they are gonna lose millions if not billions before they win. Me being in the military atleast i'll be one of the first million to die.....as for the rest of you.  Have fun watchin the world end when that happens. Nukes will be used in that war.
2006-01-14 11:06:22
Rapscallion
Member
+0|6896
A good friend ? what do you base this on ? We didnt kill him or attack his country?.
You also supplied him with money, equipment, weapons and the constituants for chemical weapons to fight the Irainians. (Probably trained alot of his forces aswell but just guessing here) Ask Donald Rumfelt(d?)

Saddam was against Iran and had lots of oil. So He was liked by the US on both points A & B. As I said in my first post.

Again This was around the time of the US hostage situation in Iran. So anyone who was an enemy of Iran was a friend to the US.


Please dont take this as US bashing. Its US Foriegn policy bashing.

Last edited by Rapscallion (2006-01-14 11:19:23)

2006-01-14 11:20:51
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7054

Rapscallion wrote:

A good friend ? what do you base this on ? We didnt kill him or attack his country?.
You also supplied him with money, equipment, weapons and the constituants for chemical weapons to fight the Irainians. (Probably trained alot of his forces aswell but just guessing here)

Saddam was against Iran and had lots of oil. So He was liked by the US on both points A & B. As I said in my first post.

Again This was around the time of the US hostage situation in Iran. So anyone who was an enemy of Iran was a friend to the US.


Please dont take this as US bashing. Its US Foriegn policy bashing.
We gave Aid when he was fighting Iran. BFD, Ironicly Israel gave aid to Iran, They are our friends... I think?
2006-01-14 11:41:03
Rapscallion
Member
+0|6896
Ironicly Israel gave aid to Iran
Must admit to not knowing that.
Even more ironicly so did the US but only under Carter (he didnt want the country to destablise and turn into something like Afghanistan.(would become)
2006-01-14 12:31:02
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7054
life is weird no? politics is weirder,  International politics is really weird

 

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